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View Poll Results: After some minor talk with the owner, Reality Defense is:

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  • Not a bullshit school

    2 2.74%
  • Kind of a bullshit school

    16 21.92%
  • Bullshit school-not recommended by bullshido

    55 75.34%
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  1. chingythingy is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/02/2008 11:58pm


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    voted bullshido.

    funny story about gouge/rips - a dude at our school bounces on the side. coworker is a deadly rip/gouge guy running his mouth. our dude says lets test it out - they scuffle, our dude gets and holds mount. other guy says i can still attack your groin from here - after trying, he found out attacking a groin while mounted leaves only 1 hand to defend getting pounded on from mount. 4 or 5 slaps and medium power strikes later, and he changed his opinion.

    which imo goes to prove that a delivery system means a world of difference in gouging / ripping. if you have an advantageous position, you can gouge / rip much more effectively than a disadvantageous position. and if you don't train the delivery system by a good ground game, you are stuck trying to gouge your way out of a disadvantageos position.
    Last edited by chingythingy; 11/03/2008 12:00am at .
  2. Omega Supreme is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/03/2008 2:56am

    staff
     Style: Chinese Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    So who's going to do the write up in the School review section?

    I'd give the Attitude and Atmosphere a 3.
  3. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/03/2008 8:55am

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Technically, Goldust should. Or when this dies down a bit, someone should go visit and see if he has changed like he claimed. You know, like he said early in the thread, before his ego took over.
  4. JHP is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/11/2008 5:21am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Folkstyle Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Hello all, this is probably one of the few times I'll post here.

    My name was brought up earlier on this thread, and yes I've seen Troy's BS and quite honestly I'm just tired of hearing about it. So I wrote him an email. Only to get several unsolicited emails in return from his followers. One of whom is a police officer for the city of Peoria. Here's our exchange. Personally I was just frustrated, now he's taken it to a whole new level of being stupid. He's making threats about trying to get me ousted from my coaching position at a local high school, since his business is in the same city as where I coach. I did some digging and discovered he has or had ties to a white supremecist who is apparently a convicted felon. That's a huge red flag to me. Especially since in the past he's threatened to get his gun to use on people. Anyone who'd involved themselves with that kind of activity, really seems mentally unstable to me. That scares me, especially since I'd be heading to his gym alone.

    The funny part is while I'm an assistant coach, I'm not paid. If by some happenstance I get money at the end of the season, it will be because they thought I did a good job. I took on a coaching position without the promise of anything. I certainly don't expect it either, it'd be a nice bonus and that's it. I didn't even get a "maybe" I just took it on.

    ---------
    What is your faith? That is the lamest excuse I have heard? If what I teach people is so worthless and will not work why are you afraid to face it? Seriously you need to grow up. I was talking to Tim a bit ago and he forwarded your e-mail to him to me. You train high school kids? If you convey these kinds of principles and behaviors I truly weep for our future. Calling me a racist? Is that the best you can do calling me names? I think if the Athletic Director at Chaparral were to learn that you are calling a Scottsdale Business owner a racist without even knowing me and if I complained to the Scottsdale School board that might be problematic for you. I believe I will be printing these e-mails off and making a trip to the high school. I do not take being called a racist kindly especially when something like that could hurt my business. You don’t know me so don’t act like you do. I suspect you have or will tell people I am a racist and I will not allow that to happen without a response.



    Remember, you started this.



    ----- Original Message -----
    From: Jon Levenson
    To: Troy L. Coe
    Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 10:45 PM
    Subject: Re: Your nonsense


    2pm, I'm pretty edgy to show up because of your promise to assault me via biting and eye gouging. Personally I just think you're a coward who's going to hide behind it and insist on it or no dice. That's fine. But I and everyone else knows the truth is that you're just a chicken **** con artist who teaches a shitty self defense system to people who are dumb enough to not check you out. I don't really care about McDojos that much, I care that you're teaching people something that you say is so great, and could potentially wind up getting someone seriously hurt or killed if actually attempted.

    Maybe a warning label? "Not 100% effective", "Do not attempt unless you're unable to run away", "Bigger and stronger opponent means I will probably get my ass kicked if I push it", "Invest in a firearm and a concealed weapons class, and if not training here may at least leave me concious long enough to read my medic alert bracelet".

    I'm not interested in consorting with crazy racists. I think your dislike for me partially stems from my faith. But that's OK. :-)
    ----- Original Message -----
    From: Troy L. Coe
    To: 'Jon Levenson'
    Cc: Jeff Barto ; Lon Bartel ; TIM SHICKY
    Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 6:38 PM
    Subject: RE: Your nonsense


    2 pm Sat. and you are in for the rudest awakening of your life if you think I don’t know how to fight on the ground. Understand, I will gouge your eyes (FOR REAL), tear your ears (FOR REAL), bite (FOR REAL), as well as other things. You will be required to sign a waiver to that effect so you don’t attempt sue me for destroying your eye or scaring your face with my teeth. This is not a competition and there will be NO rules. I will have one or two of my students that are from a local Fire Dept for the EMS that will be necessary. If you have a problem with my size Tim said he would be more than happy to face you. I will also have a student that is a Police Officer from a local agency that will explain to you what will happen and be here to witness this so you do not attempt to say you didn’t know what was going to happen. So that he can testify that you willingly took part in this.



    Nice how you left a way out of this “If you get too banged up.” I am through dealing with idiots like you with no courage and no honor. IF you show you will be a believer as you get wheeled out on a gurney. I will be here on Saturday. Either way I will not waste my time debating with an idiot like you. Don’t bother responding to this I will just delete. You said your students have ADD, I think you should have yourself tested for that disorder. See you Saturday.











    From: Jon Levenson [mailto:jhlevenson@cox.net]
    Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 5:07 PM
    To: Troy L. Coe
    Cc:
    Subject: Re: Your nonsense



    Getting taken down is pretty much game over. Being that you lack the necessary skills to get back to your fight, and the necessary skills to defend yourself on the ground, I'd say you lost the battle there big guy. You'd be jumping into a pool without knowing how to swim. Also I'm not 300 pounds, I'm not going to fight you with nearly a 150 pound advantage. That'd be crazy. I also have set foot in your school before, because I really couldn't believe what I was hearing. I still can't.



    Your school, my gym, either way works. I'd be willing to bet that none of your students would last through the type of practice I run. But if by some remarkable chance that ever happened, they could actually stand to learn something useful for a change. I can come down there Saturday sometime after practice is over. It's about 5 miles or so away to the west of you. I'm sure you can figure out where. You don't train people to compete because if they did, they'd get their asses handed to them and your "art" would be proven as a sham and a fraud.



    Saturday works for me, providing I don't get too banged up participating in a real method of training. You know, one that's actually been proven to work, not just in theory.

    ----- Original Message -----

    From: Troy L. Coe

    To: 'Jon Levenson'

    Cc: TIM SHICKY ; Lon Bartel ; Jeff Barto

    Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 2:49 PM

    Subject: RE: Your nonsense



    You know where my school is. I never said I could not be taken down, taking someone down is NOT the end of a fight. You made a very good point “Getting my eyes gouged at by someone isn't my idea of fun. Competing in a relatively safe manner is”. We do not train people to compete because it would not be fun getting gouged and bitten. And you should really stop living vicariously through Mark Kerr and get a live. If you can take me down and kick my ass please come down and do or shut the hell up. YOU are the challenger here, so come do it. Why has it taken you 2 months to get back with me? Funny how you have never set foot in my school but you make those assertions. What school do you coach at? I would really like to know? I have mats here too, I’m sure your school district would not have the liability coverage I do.



    Let me know,

    Troy



    From: Jon Levenson [mailto:jhlevenson@cox.net]
    Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 11:20 AM
    To: troycoe@cox.net
    Cc:
    Subject: Your nonsense



    Yes Troy this is about the nonsense of yours I've been force fed into reading. I was forwarded a link to your blubbery on Bullshido the other day and sadly my name got dragged into it. Personally I don't care. I find you amusing. Only since your response to problems is to bluster, threaten and such. I find it funny because the guy who initially posted and asked whether your school is any good, was a coach of mine in high school.



    So I'll reiterate, you can't stop a takedown to save your life. You don't teach a practical method for it. Mark Kerr could tell you which leg he was going to shoot at and still take you down with it.



    I'll be happy to show you how to try and stop someone from taking you down. I'd make more progress teaching your students the proper method in 30 minutes than you could in 6 months. If I'm able to teach hyperactive teenagers with ADD how to stop it, imagine what wonders I could work with functioning adults.



    I noticed your location isn't far from where I'm coaching these days. Since we run a Saturday practice, why don't you and anyone else come down towards the end of practice and feel free to come down and learn. I'd prefer you not being around my kids because I want them to see good technique. Not just you or your students flopping like epileptic rag dolls.



    Or if your intention or rather Jeff's intention is to fight, feel free. I read your misinformation and I never backed down from fighting him. Your insistence on allowing someone to eye gouge me if they can made me not want to put myself in a dangerous situation. I work for a living (try it sometime), and need my eyesight. Plus there's probably (not really) techniques you practice down there (moose knuckle?) that would be less damaging and no more effective (I can eye gouge too from a better position). Getting my eyes gouged at by someone isn't my idea of fun. Competing in a relatively safe manner is.



    So let me know when and where you'd like to learn how to actually avoid someone dumping you or any of your students/instructors on their behinds using the same techniques that I see oh so many middle school wrestlers in this state use. Saturdays work for me since I'm a few miles up the road from you and have all this wonderful lovely mat space at my disposal.



    Regards,

    Jon
  5. JHP is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/11/2008 5:38am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Folkstyle Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:...ient=firefox-a[/URL]

    I guess he narked to avoid going to prison.
  6. JHP is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/11/2008 7:38am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Folkstyle Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You can see from the email that unless I'm willing to have him or someone else attempt to gouge my eyes out it's not gonna happen. I sort of need to see to be able to go to work, drive and to coach. Although I can imagine I could probably coach without the benefit of a lot of eyesight, but it'd be hard to correct mistakes if I can't see them..lol

    I'm not going down there because he stated his intent is to try and cripple me. Cripple as in injure me to the point where I'm unable to perform my work duties and live normally. Having a fat 300 pound guy with anger issues and links to a white supremecist group try to gouge my eyes out isn't my idea of a "good time" or me proving anything. If he set some ground rules and went without the eye gouging, biting and ear pulling I would take that in a heartbeat. My ears aren't that pretty anyway.

    The sad thing is, people from legitimate law enforcement agencies are duped into this nonsense.
  7. stray_bullet is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/11/2008 10:03am


     Style: Inactive

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    gouge his eye first.
  8. chingythingy is offline

    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    12/11/2008 10:22am


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    2 pm Sat. and you are in for the rudest awakening of your life if you think I don’t know how to fight on the ground. Understand, I will gouge your eyes (FOR REAL), tear your ears (FOR REAL), bite (FOR REAL), as well as other things. You will be required to sign a waiver to that effect so you don’t attempt sue me for destroying your eye or scaring your face with my teeth. This is not a competition and there will be NO rules. I will have one or two of my students that are from a local Fire Dept for the EMS that will be necessary. If you have a problem with my size Tim said he would be more than happy to face you. I will also have a student that is a Police Officer from a local agency that will explain to you what will happen and be here to witness this so you do not attempt to say you didn’t know what was going to happen. So that he can testify that you willingly took part in this.
    **** this fat-ass 300 lb delusional "I am the deadly eye gouger" mf'er. If he wants to train in la-la land let him. And if his stupid Police Officer students want to learn how to "deadly eye gouge" suspects, they are as stupid as he is.

    Funny thing - I did a Live Search on Reality Self Defense Phoenix to find his website - it didn't turn up. The #1 link that did is www.azcombatsports.com. Now that's a little more believable as far as reality goes.
  9. Law is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/11/2008 12:36pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: BJJ/Muay Thai/Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Somebody please e-mail this jackass and bring him back to the party!
  10. Goldust is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/11/2008 3:37pm


     Style: Submission Grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Troy’s reply was pretty much about what I expected. He’ll be happy to fight someone as long as he has the deck stacked in his favor so that he thinks that he can’t lose. He wants it to go down at his place, with a considerable size advantage, with a half dozen of his guys around so that they have the numbers advantage just in case things don’t go well etc. I guarantee that if JHP looked like Brock Lesnar Troy wouldn’t be so anxious to fight. I think that he also figures that since most people won’t really want to include things like eye gouging, biting etc. that he’ll be able to get them to back off by wanting to include them. That way he can say that he “won” because few people will want to take the chance, no matter how slim, of possibly risking permanent damage to their eyes or want to risk being bitten by some guy who might have aids for all they know. They won’t spar anyone because what they do is for “life and death survival, sparring is for that sport fighting garbage”. If you could ever get one of them to fight without all of the eye gouging bullshit and they lost then they would say “I lost because I couldn’t use all of my best/deadly techniques”. If someone were to fight one of them, eye gouges and all, and pummel them anyway then they would have some other excuse for their defeat. Even if you beat them ten times in a row it wouldn’t be that their system is flawed or that their “Fearsome Five” isn’t the automatic fight stopper that they want to think it is. They would probably come back with something like “In a “real” street fight I would use weapons. Without including knives, broken bottles, aids infected needles, lava, multiple attackers, random bat wielding meth addicts high on angel dust etc. it doesn’t really count.”

    I’m sick to death of hearing these guys with their bullshit with the eye gouging, biting etc. Those things are theoretical techniques. Sure in theory they can and have been used in the past to inflict significant injury but how do you realistically practice eye gouging? The possibility of using or being eye gouged, bitten etc. is something that’s good to be aware of but making it the cornerstone of your system and believing that it should be your front line defense vs. any and all attackers is delusional.

    Also something that hasn’t yet been pointed out is that as far as I can tell RDT doesn’t have regularly scheduled classes where the students just show up to work out for the day. They have different programs like “Basic Protective Skills” and “Intermediate Protective Skills”. So for the “Basic Protective Skills” program as I understand it the students would schedule a time to show up once a week for 12-sessions until the program is completed after which they can then attend the “sparring class”, which I described in my previous review, or pay extra to beat up the designated guy in the Redman suit for the day.

    Even if RDT was the greatest stuff on earth I have a hard time seeing the students being able to handle an even marginally skilled “sport fighter” who trains and spars full contact on a regular basis equipped with the limited amount of training that the “Basic Protective Skills” or the “Intermediate Protective Skills” program would provide them with. If someone trained with Rickson Gracie once a week for twelve weeks (without any real rolling, just technique and drills) I don’t doubt that they would learn some great stuff but how much could they really be expected to be able to apply based on that amount of training and limited contact? Yet Troy would have us all believe that his students are all deadly invincible street fighting killing machines able to effortlessly remove the eyes and ears of all of those sport fighters and their silly grappling techniques.

    Troy got so defensive here because he’s used to being the big fish in a small pond, preaching to the choir everyday surrounded by followers that hang on his every word and accept it as the gospel. When people weren’t impressed with his tales of his proficiency at ear removal his only defense was to lash out issuing threats and then to finally say “fuck you guys” and run away which is the equivalent of a little kid sticking their fingers in their ears and yelling “I can’t hear you” over and over because they only want to hear what they want to hear.

    People will believe what they prefer to be true. Troy and his followers have too much invested in RDT to accept the possibility that it just might not be all that they believe it is so they’ve set up a belief system where nothing can or could convince them otherwise. It’s the same type of mentality employed by people who believe in creationism. When you ask them what evidence could convince them that creationism is false their answer is “Nothing, no amount of evidence could convince me that it isn’t true.” It’s the same thing with Troy and his RDT followers, they believe that RDT is the be all end all and nothing is or possibly can persuade them otherwise.
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