TKD calls out MMA

**International W** · Posted On: 4/29/2007 8:36pm

Kempo,

I espoused the greatness of my background, which is traditional wrestling. I gave examples of how the focus to succeed drove me and my training for many years (which it did), and how that same work ethic to succeed made me a success off the mats as well. I gave my favorite example of my senior year, when I captured my elusive state championship. I entered the 3rd period of the match trailing 11-5, which to some may seem to be a huge margin in an important match. I wound up winning a thriller 12-11, and captured my state championship. What I also mentioned was how a future UFC competitor won the weight class below me, even though we weighed about the same. After the midway point of the season, you're given a 2 lb maximum allowance, so it may be the 152 lb. weight class, but 154 is the maximum allowed. I weighed in at 154.7 that day (well under the 162 lb. maximum for my weight class), and 5A state champion Homer Moore weighed just under 154. By that point I was done cutting weight in high school, as I wanted to actually enjoy my senior year. Though I do wonder how a match between me and Homer would have gone, we practiced together once in a while (AZ All Star Duals), but in high school I think I was a little bit tougher and had more of a mean streak. Now it wouldn't be close, he almost made the Olympic team in 96.

This Tae Kwon Do guy is just not facing reality and distorting it to make us all seem like idiots. I wonder if he realizes I'd be thrilled to know kids grow up to be like Chuck Liddell. Let's see....millionaire (probably), college degree in accounting, former collegiate wrestler, former professional CPA, yeah because god forbid anyone is a successful accountant.

**feedback** · Posted On: 4/29/2007 8:55pm

Why waste your time reading that? Though it's a true stereotype that MMA fighters are thugs. Well, sort of. The ones who compete are thugs, the ones who post about it online tend to be nerds.

**snoozn** · Posted On: 4/29/2007 8:57pm

I completely agree with KempoFist. My kids go to a BJJ studio with several MMA fighters. One of the MMAists is their main teacher (http://http://www.rofmma.com/v2/modu...rticle&sid=538). He is an incredible teacher and a great role model too. While I wouldn't let my kids watch MMA, Eliot remains a great role model in the ring as well as in class. While the studio doesn't teach MMA to kids at the level of my kids, they do teach it to the more advanced students. These advanced students often work as my daughter's training partners because she needs extra help (she is autisitic). These kids work great with my daughter and are very helpful and polite--no thugs here!

The pamphlet reads to me like some decent advice mixed with some terrible advice and lots of marketing.

snoozn

**Ke?poFist** · Posted On: 4/29/2007 9:09pm

Originally Posted by ironlurker

"no-hold-barred-full-contact-fighting" may not be appropriate for children, but not the sport!
This is like saying, "baseball is an inappropriate sport for young children because a kid shouldn't be subjected to 85 mph brushback pitches."

Quoted for truth. Very well said.

**FUNKtastic** · Posted On: 4/29/2007 11:33pm

Damn, according to his pamphlet i should quit going to Judo.

We have a small class (17 was most we ever had, usually around 10 or so) although I wouldn't blame that on the instruction; 6th dan teaching and having produced several champions including on a national level with one hopefully going to Sao Paulo for Masters this summer.

In fact the BJJ , Sambo and other Judo places I have seen did not have a large class size either, roughly 10-15 with the exception of Renzo's Academy in Mid-Town but the McDojos I've seen are packed. Are these grappling places offering bad instruction or is this a reflection of the average person's unwillingness to work his ass of in an MA class that hurts rather than going through the motions?

Competition? Well you CAN get the first two belts without it although participation in tourneys will get you there faster and from then on you're racking up points at comps. No trophies in the window although sensei has said "if you want trophies I have a room full of em, come and pick one out for yourself!" but I made sure to ask about it; I want to test what I am learning not be under a false assumption that I am deadly.

Also I couldnt find this guy's bio on the site, couldnt look through it carefully because I got an exams tommorow and wanted to get my reply in. Does he have credentials up or am I going to have to google him tommorow?

**Lv1Sierpinski** · Posted On: 4/30/2007 5:04am

Originally Posted by bodhistate

But that's the funny thing, stripping MA of any philosophy/ethics/etc is the other side of the coin, and just as extreme. Some arts take this farther than others (the extremely stripped down version offered by MMA to the arts fostered and developed in monasteries).

I'm curious how you arrive at the notion that any style/art/sport removes philosophy/ethics/etc. Different to be sure, but...it seems quite logical (dare I say preferable) that the 'philosophy' of a confrontational art be about the actual confrontation. For example...position before submission. This is a training/engagement philosophy, and frankly one I find more appropriate than the 'punch him in the eye' variety. You can find every life teaching everywhere, to varying degrees, if you look for it (just check out all those 'everything I needed to learn about life I learned in X' books).

And as for ethics, I think -questionable business practices aside- anything with rules, where you have to work together with others, is going to provide a solid foundation of ethics. Martial arts are really no better or worse, as a whole, than any other activity kids (or adults) can be doing, further, I don't think any subsection of MA (beyond a particular school) is any better or worse either.

**FictionPimp** · Posted On: 4/30/2007 8:52am

I don't mind being called a thug or skinhead. I however draw the line at being called a pro wrestler!!!

I guess its better then the reality though, I'm a skinny, weak, computer nerd with dreams of being a tough guy.

**Naszir** · Posted On: 4/30/2007 9:18am

Originally Posted by snoozn

I completely agree with KempoFist. My kids go to a BJJ studio with several MMA fighters. One of the MMAists is their main teacher (http://http://www.rofmma.com/v2/modu...rticle&sid=538). He is an incredible teacher and a great role model too. While I wouldn't let my kids watch MMA, Eliot remains a great role model in the ring as well as in class.

snoozn

You study under Amal Easton? I have heard nothing but good things about him. One of my best friends growing up was a student of his and spoke very highly of him. Like so many others have said, I think that if the writer of the e-mail/pamphlet actually visited a bjj/mma school with a children's program he might change his mind, unless it is all just a smoke screen to protect his financial interests. But I am hoping for the former rather than the latter.

**john joe** · Posted On: 4/30/2007 10:31am

i wish people would learn to type in paragraphs. its a fucking nuisance trying to read huge big blocks of text.

put

some

line

breaks

in

**Kempoist** · Posted On: 4/30/2007 10:34am

Originally Posted by Naszir

Like so many others have said, I think that if the writer of the e-mail/pamphlet actually visited a bjj/mma school with a children's program he might change his mind, unless it is all just a smoke screen to protect his financial interests. But I am hoping for the former rather than the latter.

Sorry to dash your hopes upon the rocks my friend. Here is a post Ran made when I confronted him about his "consumer report".

Ok Guys, if my report offended anyone I appologize. What you have to keep in
mind is the CONTEXT of the entire report. Remember, it is not an essay, but
essentially a marketing piece and its audience is a typical "Mom" of a 6 year
old. When I wrote it I did so through the eyes of a typical mother and rather
than have it be a lengthy dissertation on martial arts styles or history, its
basic purpose is to warn parents about illegitimate instructors IN MY AREA and
what I consider to be dangrous practices for children.
Here's the most important conextual point: The report is VERY SPECIFIC to a
particular "competing" school in my area, and much of the report was written so
that if anyone who read it walked into that school they will know exactly
what's up.
For example... This school's MMA instructor looks like a skin-head
biker-gand-member and holds a "high rank" in a style that contains both
"extreme" and
"freestyle" in its name... my quote about "traditions are B.S" is taken directly
from his website... They are very cheap and charge only month to month, their
TKD instructors are not qualified in either rank or skill to test and promote
students... Their classes are all games and obstacle courses... Get the
picture?

The MMA instructor he's referring to is Jim McCaan...a submission wrestler, JKD guy and old-school boxer. He never says "traditions are BS" the exact quote is "the study of the true essence of combat removed from ritualistic BS and blended together with
Blood, Sweat, & Tears. " Note he said Ritualistic BS..not Traditional.

The full quote can be found here:

http://www.xtremefreestyle.com/

As for the "Skin head biker" remark. This is the picture of Jim he was referring to. I admit it looks a bit severe. But anyone who knows him would never say that about him. I wonder if Ran would ever call Jim a Nazi Skinhead to his face? Doubt it.

http://www.xtremefreestyle.com/image...o.jpg-Crop.jpg