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  1. bodhistate is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/28/2007 10:12pm


     Style: pa-kua

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by MrGalt
    Why oh why do we insist on these huge package deals in America anyway? Why does a single activity or hobby have to fill all of your needs simultaneously? Why does your wife have to be your best friend too? Diversify! Send your kid to a gym and teach him to fight from Monday to Friday, feed him on Saturday, and then if you think he needs it drop him off at church on Sunday morning to get all the morals and ethics and whatnot he can stomach.
    Totally. Nothing can be everything for everybody. But think of the rise of places like K-Mart. You can buy "everything" there, cheaply. Quality is low (kinda like the idea of good-fast-cheap pick two). MA package deals (like this and most others) demonstrate the effect of American economics and capitolism. Of course, this is often enough for people who just don't want to bother with digging around any more than they have to.
  2. Nutbar is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/29/2007 12:11am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: American Kenpo / BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Wow. Talk about being arrogant. That ad was pretty much his own opinion and he is trying to make it out like it's the truth.
  3. Torec_Scrail is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/29/2007 12:35am


     Style: TKD, uber BJJ n00b

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by kohadril
    I usually get angry about stuff like this, but for some reason, it doesn't irk me this time. It's just a product of desperation and ignorance. They're using the bloodsport boogeyman to scare parents, and as shitty as that is, it's also a little pathetic. There is no moral teaching, no ethical principle, that TKD teaches, that isn't taught better at my BJJ/MMA gym. TKD tells you to use restraint; BJJ/MMA forces you to when you roll competitively with the new guy. TKD tells you to keep your pride in check; in BJJ/MMA, pride will get you tapped/beaten up, and you won't survive your first three weeks with your pride intact anyway. TKD tells you your training partners are your brothers and sisters; in BJJ/MMA, it never even crosses your mind to doubt this. TKD tells you to be calm and cool under pressure; in BJJ/MMA, you're constantly under pressure, so you become acclimatized to it. TKD tells you to shake hands with your opponent after a match; in BJJ/MMA it's an automatic reaction. TKD tells you not to get into fights; BJJ/MMA teaches you how much it would hurt and suck even to win a fight with somebody who's trying to brutalize you.

    TKD is struggling with its irrelevance. It shouldn't be. It's an Olympic sport, like synchronized swimming and figure skating, and will therefore be one of the few traditional martial arts to survive the MMA revolution with any semblance of its former popularity and reputation. The fact is, though, that the only value of TKD for self-defense is teaching kids how to kick with an open hip, which will be valuable when they start kickboxing at an MMA gym.

    Kids should take MMA. First, it will teach them how to fight, as opposed to how to play TKD. Second, the lessons they learn from their own experiences will be ten times more powerful than any moralistic blather handed down from on high.

    P.S. The axe-kick is pretty useful against a downed opponent too, I guess, but if you use it when your opponent's up you're just asking for a pelvis-wrenching takedown.
    Haha man, I can't believe how true this post is..coming from TKD myself. Two different kinds of goals I guess..(or 3, for those like me that try to be more of fighters but get their asses handed to them bad :P) Still trying to shake some of the habits from TKD...
  4. International W is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/29/2007 10:08am


     Style: Wrestling

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The guy emailed me back. I'll post it here.
  5. JohnnyCache is offline
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    All Out of Bubblegum

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    Posted On:
    4/29/2007 12:32pm

    supporting memberforum leader
     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I found kohadril's point about MMA showing and TKD telling to be pretty consistent with the average american TKD school.

    I have to say - I found the pamphlet dangerous, because it started out with things I agree with and then went into left field.

    Why would a doctor teach martial arts? He likes martial arts, but he wanted a job where he made more money? He was already a committed distance into medical training when he discovered martial arts/reached a level where he could teach? He's well off and willing to teach for cost?

    I find it relevent that no where in his material does he mention ANYTHING about fighting. Granted, it's aimed at a lay-person parent, but you'd think the idea that "my martial arts school will teach you to fight" might work its way in there somewhere.

    Also:

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Zohar's Website
    Research has proven that less than three out of ten people have a less than average sense of coordination. Even professional athletes improve their skills through Taekwondo. Body balance is also extremely important. Your coordination is drastically improved through strategic martial arts exercises. This training creates a strong internal reflex system.
    Uhm

    Won't about 4/10 people have 'less then average coordination" sort of by definition? You know, because that's how averages work?
    Last edited by JohnnyCache; 4/29/2007 12:38pm at .
    There's no choice but to confront you, to engage you, to erase you. I've gone to great lengths to expand my threshold of pain. I will use my mistakes against you. There's no other choice.
  6. International W is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/29/2007 3:28pm


     Style: Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Here is the email he sent back to me.

    -------------------

    Hello Sir,
    thank you for taking the time to read my report and share your viewpoint.
    In response to your email, first I suggest you consider the context and title of the report - it is written with the sole purpose of helping parents find the right martial arts program for their CHILDREN.

    In that light, I think any reasonable parent would agree that a no-hold-barred-full-contact-fighting-sport is not appropriate for children.

    As far as the type of "role models" children would find in MMA... all you have to do is watch an episode of Spike's "Ultimate Fighter" (the biggest single factor in bringing MMA to the "mainstream public") and my point is clearly right on. These foul-mouthed, bad-attitude, heavily tattooed, heavy drinking young men are the frontline representatives of your sport. For that matter watch any of the popular MMA franchises, UFC, Pride etc'. You'd have a hard time finding anyone you'd want your child to emulate.

    I hope that clears up my position. Good luck in your competition career.

    Ran Zohar
    P.S. Where/How did you come across my report?
  7. JohnnyCache is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/29/2007 3:37pm

    supporting memberforum leader
     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Man, I'm so sick of this CHILDREN CHILDREN CHILDREN business. I'm glad that guy can make a living off of not teaching kids how to fight, but what about all the other stuff in his 'report' (by report I mean ad for schools exactly like his) that's BS?
    There's no choice but to confront you, to engage you, to erase you. I've gone to great lengths to expand my threshold of pain. I will use my mistakes against you. There's no other choice.
  8. Ke?poFist is offline
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    Enforcer of Northeast Anti-Silliness Department Inc.

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    Posted On:
    4/29/2007 5:19pm

    supporting member
     Style: Kaju, BJJ, Judo, Kempo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    What BS. International W. when you reply back, please make it clear that children need not follow sport MMA or watch the Ultimate Fighter to attend a quality martial arts program. Pointing to hyped up sport MMA which caters to a testosterone filled 18-35yr old demographic as a sign of how a child being trained properly how to fight is somehow bad is intellectual dishonesty, and at best just pure stupidity on his part. All the kids at my Jits school attend a place where numerous MMA fighters, and UFC fighters train. After watching some of those classes, I can say I can't think of a more wholesome and good-natured environment one could send their kids. Sure when the little ones aren't around, we can get foul-mouthed and such, but the instruction they receive and the way the instructors handle the kids are top notch.
    Knowing is not enough, you must apply...
    ...Willing is not enough you must do
    ~Bruce Lee

  9. Kempoist is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/29/2007 5:53pm


     Style: Kempo, Catch Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by shinbushi
    Is it the Yahoo one? I remember the exchange. Basically he said he wrote that booklet as a reply(or warning against) a 'negative' school in his area. We should invite him on to this board to defend his statements.

    That's the one. You probably saw the less than warm reception I got when I introduced myself to the group.

    I'll sit down and post the whole exchange sometime...pretty interesting stuff...especially since he specifically calls out one of my instructors (Jim McCaan).
  10. ironlurker is offline
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    How do Chameleon Circuit?

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    Posted On:
    4/29/2007 8:06pm


     Style: jkd

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by International W
    In that light, I think any reasonable parent would agree that a no-hold-barred-full-contact-fighting-sport is not appropriate for children.
    This Ran Zohar guy loves to baffle with BS. They say the best lies contain some truth.
    "no-hold-barred-full-contact-fighting" may not be appropriate for children, but not the sport!
    This is like saying, "baseball is an inappropriate sport for young children because a kid shouldn't be subjected to 85 mph brushback pitches."

    I bet a big clue to his whole marketing angle lies in his competitors. He mention Jiu Jitsu by name as one of the extreme d34dly UFC arts so I'm thinking he means BJJ, and it looks like there's at least one place near him with a kids program that claims to offer it.

    Only a small number of selected practitioners (non-Koreans) can participate in these programs. In 1998 fewer than 20 Americans (93 non-Koreans, from 32 countries) were issued Graduation Certificates by the Academy at the 1st Foreigner Instructors Course. The first USA graduates of this historic course were given this opportunity and brought to this event by Grandmaster Al Cole of Cleveland, Ohio. They were Ran Zohar, Mike Snisky, Andy Bouloutian, from Pennsylvania; Dennis Enberg, Rob Cleek, Al Cole from Cleveland, Ohio; Wes Dees, Christina Bailey, from Dayton Ohio; Marika Powell from Palm Beach, FL; and Mary Zeller from Utah. The curriculum for belt promotion is specified and certified by the Kukkiwon, including required and compulsory poomsae (kata or forms), sparring, and breaking techniques.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kukkiwon

    He's listed first in all these Kukkiwon articles on wiki, answers, etc. A TKD aficionado might know exctly what this is about and if it's accurate.
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