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  1. Cullion is offline
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    Everybody was Kung Fu fighting

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    Posted On:
    5/02/2007 1:06pm

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     Style: Tai Chi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    What a lot of people call 'cardio' isn't actually just about the heart. The growth of new blood vessels (particularly around the lungs) are another adaptation that 'cardio' induces, along with your ability to metabolise certain waist products.

    Part of the reason why people do roadwork is because these adaptations improve their recovery times so they can get more of the anaerobic sport-specific training done in a session.

    Read Omega's posts on this the last time it came up. In my own personal experience it does make a difference to build up a basic level of 'cardio' or 'aerobic stamina' with something like roadwork, it's just that the roadwork doesn't become the actual goal (and doesn't require huge distances) like it does for a marathon runner.
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  2. Cullion is offline
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    Everybody was Kung Fu fighting

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    Posted On:
    5/02/2007 1:09pm

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I think people hate 'cardio' because it's boring and painful. I know that's why I hate it.
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  3. NunOnBreak is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/02/2007 1:13pm


     Style: Kajukenbo / Judo / IKEA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Equipoise
    Except for the fact that 1. Cardio is a nebulous term and 2. Use the search function in the inability to increase VO2 max.
    Gee, this (below) is similar to crossfit stuff (going at maximum pace in an aerobic activity for a few minutes and then resting)

    You are someone throwing out big training terms who doesn't have a clue about what they realy mean.

    Improving your VO2 max

    The following are samples of Astrands (a work physiologists) workouts for improving oxygen uptake:

    * (1) - Run at maximum speed for 5 minutes. Note the distance covered in that time. Let us assume that the distance achieved is 1900 metres. Rest for five minutes, and then run the distance (1900 metres) 20% slower, in other words in six minutes, with 30 seconds rest, repeated many times. This is equal to your 10 Km pace
    * (2) - Run at maximum speed for four minutes. Note the distance covered in that time. Rest for four minutes. In this case, we will assume you run a distance of 1500 metres. Now run the same distance 15% slower, in other words in 4 minutes 36 seconds, with 45 seconds rest, repeated several times. This approximates to a time between the athlete's 5 Km and 10 Km time
    * (3) - Run at maximum effort for three minute. Note the distance covered in that time. The distance covered is, say 1000 metres. Successive runs at that distance are taken 10% slower or at 3 minutes 18 seconds, with 60 seconds rest, repeated several times. This approximates to your 5 Km time
    * (4) - Run at maximum effort for five minutes. Note the distance covered in that time. The distance covered is 1900 metres. Rest five minutes. The distance is now covered 5% slower with one and a half minutes rest. This is approximately 3K pace for you, i.e., five minutes 15 seconds/1900 metres
    * (5) - Run at maximum effort for three minutes. The distance covered is 1100 metres. When recovered, the athlete then runs the same distance 5% slower, i.e., three minutes nine seconds/1100 metres, with one minute rest, repeated several times. This is at 3 Km pace
    Last edited by NunOnBreak; 5/02/2007 2:02pm at .



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  4. Cullion is offline
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    Everybody was Kung Fu fighting

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    Posted On:
    5/02/2007 1:21pm

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If muscle strength was the major trainable component for 'endurance' activities, and the rest were a question of skill and genetics, then surely powerlifters, on average, would stomp all over marathon runners at running marathons ?
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  5. Cullion is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/02/2007 1:31pm

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Those marathon runners are wasting their time running all those miles. They should just do 15 minutes here and there to practice technique and do low-rep strength routines. amirite?
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  6. Res Judicata is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/02/2007 2:21pm


     Style: Judo & BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Crossfit doesn't completely suck, but it's not the best thing either. It's good to a point. It gets people to a certain state of decent mediocrity (with the exception of work capacity). It won't get you very strong, it won't get you jacked, it won't get you very explosive, etc., but it's okay at all of those things. Often used as an excuse for skinny girly-men to stay skinny girly-men. It tends to push people towards a certain kind of lean, compact physique.

    Crossfit unfortunately makes all sorts of ridiculous claims (700 lb deadlift!) and their "Coach" is a jackass. It's also has a cult following (by "cult" I mean Jim Jones/Scientology cult)

    Crossfit is a good modality and can be used as part of a properly periodized plan. It's a good way to get out of shape people in shape quickly. But as a training plan for now to eternity for a serious athlete, it sucks.

    Here's what Rhadi Ferguson has to say about Crossfit on another board:
    Crossfit is OK.

    It is great for general population, not special population.

    It is not specific enough at the end ranges of sports specific training to be GREAT.

    But it is quite good and a heluva big bang for your buck.
    http://JudoForum.com/index.php?s=&sh...dpost&p=255658
    Last edited by Res Judicata; 5/02/2007 2:26pm at .
  7. Equipoise is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/02/2007 4:02pm

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Res Judicata
    Crossfit doesn't completely suck, but it's not the best thing either. It's good to a point. It gets people to a certain state of decent mediocrity
    Perfect summation.


    Nunonbreak... use the search function, you'll see countless threads by myself, Koto, Keinharr, Mediocrates, Jwinch and others about things such as the V02 max, etc. Do some reading, then come back and argue if you disagree. However at this point you have absolutely no room for any sort of retort.


    Quote Originally Posted by Cullion
    If muscle strength was the major trainable component for 'endurance' activities, and the rest were a question of skill and genetics, then surely powerlifters, on average, would stomp all over marathon runners at running marathons ?
    Think of it this way, the easier it is to do work, the less energy is expended therefore making the same rate of work easier. That's Physics.

    The reasons why power lifters don't run marathons is due to how their specific training has altered their metabolic pathways for a certain activity, mostly the usage of Type IIa, b and c fibers. The overall idea is to train in the capacity that you will be doing your activities for. Also as you stated about the genetics, is that they play a large role in having a predisposition for specific activities.

    You also have to take into account the synapses and CNS modification towards certain activities. The better the technique, the less energy is expended for the same activity.
    Last edited by Equipoise; 5/02/2007 4:09pm at .
  8. NunOnBreak is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/02/2007 4:14pm


     Style: Kajukenbo / Judo / IKEA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Equipoise
    Nunonbreak... at this point you have absolutely no room for any sort of retort.
    I have all of the room in the internet to retort. So far everything I have read about V02 max contradicts your statement that crossfit won't improve it. This inclines me to take whatever else you try to say on the subject as an 'expert' as mere epeen ejaculate.
    Last edited by NunOnBreak; 5/02/2007 4:31pm at .



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  9. Cullion is offline
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    Everybody was Kung Fu fighting

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    Posted On:
    5/03/2007 3:27am

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     Style: Tai Chi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I have read a lot of those posts on VO2 max and there are some simple things about them which don't make sense to me and aren't agreed with by many experienced coaches.

    1) As I pointed out, heart muscle hypotrophy is not the only adaptation which occurs when doing 'cardio'.

    2) What I'll call 'aerobic stamina' (e.g. how far can you run before you gas) is highly trainable and working maximal strength is not particularly effective at training it.

    3) Your assertion that with increasing maximal strength comes increasing endurance is simplly not true for endurance over periods an order of magnitude greater than the time taken to perform a set in the weights room. If this were true then people with high lower-body strength from squats etc.. would do better in marathons and iron-man events than people who train by running, swimming and cycling for mile after mile. The reasons for this are not simply to do with technique, they are to do with the 'endurance athelete' having made their body adapt in ways which you just don't get from doing brief heavy sets in the weights room.

    Now, in the context of martial arts, you're quite right that we should,'t train like marathon runners. But we aren't powerlifters either. Working 'aerobic stamina' up to a certain basic standard is a great help with more MA specific and intense training because it gets your recovery time down.
  10. Southpaw is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/03/2007 12:38pm

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     Style: BJJ, Wing Chun

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    So Equipoise...are you now saying that Crossfit doesn't actually "suck ****?"
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