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  1. GoldenJonas is offline

    Light Heavyweight

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    Posted On:
    4/29/2007 10:29pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    We have drilled this quite a few times in my no-gi class when working transitions from turtle to the back.

    The one thing I noticed is that the transition via head shuck verses say your typical BJJ hip and cross-shoulder post is a lot more violent. This is neither good nor bad, it is just different than if you come from a pure BJJ type school where everything (most transitions specifically) is kept close and space is kept at a minimum.

    Although I have drilled the head shuck quite a bit, I have never actually used it during live rolling. My instructor has a wrestling background and we have collegiate wrestlers in class all of the time so we get exposed to a lot of different techniques, however, from a BJJ perspective, I thought the head shuck was a sure way for your opponent to recover guard.

    Has anyone used the head shuck with success in competition or live rolling or has anyone seen the space created by the head shuck result in an opportunity for the opponent to recover guard?
  2. Roidie McDouchebag is offline
    Roidie McDouchebag's Avatar

    Injury Waiting To Happen

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    Posted On:
    4/29/2007 11:44pm

    supporting member
     Style: Snatch Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I've used it and many times landed in guard, but it sometimes it works, it really depends what your opponent is doing, if you KNOW he wants to keep driving in on his shoot, good, if not, not. It's not a go to move though.
  3. International W is offline

    Registered Member

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    Posted On:
    4/30/2007 3:37am


     Style: Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I've used it a lot in the past. It's a move you have to chain together with a couple others, and by no means a go to move really, but if you can slip it in once in a while, your opponent has to respect the fact it's always there. Sort of like any small move, a lateral drop, head and arm, etc. Anyone can do the move with enough drilling, but it's knowing when to do the move which is the right thing to know. That comes with experience and live going. If all you've got is the head schuck, you might need to learn a good duckunder to compliment that (I'm fond of this), or as someone else mentioned a head drag, or even the dreaded boot scoot. :-)

    Most of that you can tie into a front headlock series, which I really like because you can hurt someone with that badly if you know what to chain together. Gator roll, cement job, head chancel, etc.
  4. Uri Shatil is offline
    Uri Shatil's Avatar

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    Posted On:
    5/02/2007 11:23pm


     Style: Wrestling, BJJ n00b

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Cement job? Are you talking about the cement mixer? The cement mixer is one move that you never want to do, at least in my expierience. It will not work against a good wrestler.
  5. wakinonioi is offline

    Senior Member

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    Aug 2004
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    koko
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    Posted On:
    5/05/2007 4:56am


     Style: Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Unless you can just catch them right off the bat, you should move the opponent around in one direction before suddenly reversing and shucking in the opposite as you move behind at the same time.
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  6. International W is offline

    Registered Member

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    Posted On:
    5/07/2007 1:08pm


     Style: Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Uri Shatil
    Cement job? Are you talking about the cement mixer? The cement mixer is one move that you never want to do, at least in my expierience. It will not work against a good wrestler.
    Same move, different name.

    Tell Josh Lambrecht from Oklahoma that it doesn't work, he'd love to hear it. He was winning in the NCAA finals against Rob Rohn 14-3, when Rohn pinned him in the 3rd period with that very move. Rohn also pinned Jessman Smith from Iowa in the semis with the cement job too. The move works, if it didn't work nobody would do it. It's all about the timing of when you choose to use a technique. It'd be like saying the lateral drop doesn't work...well it doesn't work unless you set it up properly, and if you force it when someone's backing out of you, it won't work. I think what you're trying to say is that it shouldn't be the staple of someone's offense, which I would agree with. But that tournament, Rohn just had it going and it worked for him.

    Here's the match on YouTube.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAf_g9TNVaU
    Last edited by International W; 5/07/2007 1:41pm at .
  7. kohadril is offline
    kohadril's Avatar

    Registered Member

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    Posted On:
    5/07/2007 1:41pm


     Style: BJJ, Debate-Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by International W
    Same move, different name.

    Tell Josh Lambrecht from Oklahoma State that it doesn't work, he'd love to hear it. He was winning in the NCAA finals against Rob Rohn 14-3, when Rohn pinned him in the 3rd period with that very move. Rohn also pinned Jessman Smith from Iowa in the semis with the cement job too.
    The OP isn't disputing that it can produce a pin. He's asking whether it will give your opponent an opportunity to re-establish his guard. In wrestling, that doesn't matter, since re-establishing guard requires pinning yourself. In BJJ, it matters a lot, since shoulders on the mat = nothing, and guard top 1) isn't a scoring position, 2) is difficult to submit people from, and 3) is attackable.
  8. International W is offline

    Registered Member

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    Posted On:
    5/07/2007 1:45pm


     Style: Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by kohadril
    The OP isn't disputing that it can produce a pin. He's asking whether it will give your opponent an opportunity to re-establish his guard. In wrestling, that doesn't matter, since re-establishing guard requires pinning yourself. In BJJ, it matters a lot, since shoulders on the mat = nothing, and guard top 1) isn't a scoring position, 2) is difficult to submit people from, and 3) is attackable.
    If you do it properly you'll wind up in side control or north/south. And yes you can submit someone with the hold. If you let me lock up a front headlock on you similar to the one Rohn had going, I would make you tap or hurt your neck.

    It's a great technique to throw when someone doesn't expect it, like Lambrecht didn't, even though Rohn had mowed down Jessman Smith in the previous round with it.
  9. kohadril is offline
    kohadril's Avatar

    Registered Member

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    Posted On:
    5/07/2007 1:51pm


     Style: BJJ, Debate-Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by International W
    If you do it properly you'll wind up in side control or north/south. And yes you can submit someone with the hold. If you let me lock up a front headlock on you similar to the one Rohn had going, I would make you tap or hurt your neck.
    Watching the video, that's what it looks like to me too. I think the OP is suggesting that the pendulum guard recovery technique (that's what I was taught to call it) could be used right as the mixer ends, while the guy on top doesn't have much coverage. But with the head controlled, I'm not sure if that would work.
  10. International W is offline

    Registered Member

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    Posted On:
    5/07/2007 2:20pm


     Style: Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If you control the head it doesn't work.
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