Let's Talk Pain (Elbows and Shoulders)

[Quikfeet509]

Acupuncture. Usually most systematic reviews on acupuncture end with "not enough information" because of the poor designs of many of the studies, exclusion criteria, or lack of research in English or German.

But here you go:


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...=pubmed_docsum


Rheumatology (Oxford). 2004 Sep;43(9):1085-90. Epub 2004 Jun 22. Links
Acupuncture for the alleviation of lateral epicondyle pain: a systematic review.Trinh KV, Phillips SD, Ho E, Damsma K.
School of Medicine, McMaster University, 1200 Main Street West, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada L8N 3Z5.

OBJECTIVES: Lateral epicondyle pain is a common complaint in North America. In the past 10 yr acupuncture has become increasingly recognized as an alternative treatment for pain, including epicondyle pain. This review evaluates the effectiveness of acupuncture as a treatment for lateral epicondylitis using the appropriate analysis. METHODS: Online bibliographic database searches in any language from Medline, PsychINFO, CINAHL, Healthstar, PMID, CAM, EMBASE, Cochrane Database of Systematic Review (3rd quarter 2003), articles listed in reference lists of key articles and the author's personal files were performed. Randomized and quasi-randomized controlled trials examining the effects of acupuncture on lateral epicondyle pain were selected. From the six studies that met inclusion criteria, the first author, year of publication, population studied, dropout rate, treatment plan, assessment scale and outcome measures were extracted. Study quality was determined by using the Jadad scale, in which all studies were rated as high quality. A best evidence synthesis approach was used to analyse the data presented in the six studies. RESULTS: All the studies suggested that acupuncture was effective in the short-term relief of lateral epicondyle pain. Five of six studies indicated that acupuncture treatment was more effective compared to a control treatment.CONCLUSIONS: There is strong evidence suggesting that acupuncture is effective in the short-term relief of lateral epicondyle pain.

[Pandinha]

I have the same problem with both elbows. Mostly my left. I had my massage therapist work on the bicipital groove, for about 30 minutes. Two days ago did heavy thai pad work on it, I mean, Shark was was throwing the pad and leaning into it. His 210, plus my 250, and I had no problems at all today with my elbow at all.

Also, do some forearm massage yourself, using arnica. I've had really good results out of this.

[Wolf]

Yeah, the MSM is key. As I understand it, and if anyone knows better please correct me, Glucosamine and Chondroitin are more for cartilage and overall joint help, but MSM is specifically for connective tissure.

[Van Isle]

I just got accupucture in my elbow, knee and ankle all because of tendonitus........Joints are not fun to get needles jammed into I admit I cried like a little baby lol...........It for sure hurts more getting the needle stuck in your joints than dislocating your knee or your shoulder

[Teh El Macho]

I just got accupucture in my elbow, knee and ankle all because of tendonitus........Joints are not fun to get needles jammed into I admit I cried like a little baby lol...........It for sure hurts more getting the needle stuck in your joints than dislocating your knee or your shoulder

Dude, are you being serious? I've had accupunture done, and it's never hurted, except when the needles are placed in the earlobes. And even then, it's a minor discomfort, nothing like what you are describing.

[Quikfeet509]

Acupuncture can hurt, depending on what is being treated, when it is being treated [stage], who is being treated [some people are more sensitive than others], and who is doing the treatment [major factor].

I've noticed that Chinese acupuncturists tend to get more "stimulation" than their American counterparts, while most Japanese-style acupuncturists barely cause any pain. These are generalizations about needling technique and style, but they also reflect the cultural expectation of pain. The way I needled patients in China would make most Americans run out the door screaming.

But if you are concerned about your acupuncturist's ability, here are some quick questions to ask them:

1. Do you have a master's degree and are you nationally licensed? The average master's degree in acupuncture takes between 2800-3300 hours of training and lasts about 3 years. A chiropractor can get "certified" usually with 100 hours of training, and a medical [physician] acupuncturist can get certified with 300 hours. Obviously the last two categories of providers are less likely to have refined their skill, considering that my program spent more than 300 hours on practicing needling before we even saw patients.

2. How many years have you practiced? The pathetic training of DCs and MDs can be overcome if they are high-speed and have plenty of experience. On the other hand, just having a master's degree doesn't make one proficient - even if you barely pass your classes and your boards, you still have the degree and license.

3. What conditions do you typically treat? I would rather go to a medical acupuncturist that has focused solely on musculoskeletal or sports injuries rather than a 5-element acupuncturist that primarily treats emotional issues.


If you are ever in doubt, check http://www.nccaom.org/find.htm to find a qualified, master's degree prepared and nationally certified practitioner.

[KhorneliusPraxx]

I have the 'golfers elbow' on my left arm and can barely curle any weight with it. To make matters worse, my right wrist is killing me even worse. Don't know what caused either, just woke up and they were there. The wrist was the day after a BJJ tourny though so I guess I got it there and didn't feel it until the next morning.

[Teh El Macho]

I have the 'golfers elbow' on my left arm and can barely curle any weight with it. To make matters worse, my right wrist is killing me even worse. Don't know what caused either, just woke up and they were there. The wrist was the day after a BJJ tourny though so I guess I got it there and didn't feel it until the next morning.

KP dude, you gotta try a massage therapist. I had an appo with one yesterday, and in less than 10 minutes, she relieved a lot of the pain in my left arm. I should have tried this a long time ago instead of trying to suck it up and/or fixing it myself. :eusa_doh

Until now, I've tried to massage my own forearms, but the pain in the arm applying the massage is very bad (.ie. if I'm massaging my left forearm, my right forearm begins to bitch in pain and viceversa). I'm still trying to do it myself, but by having someone else doing it, the massage is more effective.

Now, this is the weird thing guys. Pay attention.

Yesterday's massage also included my right shoulder blade and neck... and not only they are better but my forearms as well. I'm beginning to suspect this **** is interconnected. I **** you not!!!!

The whole day I've been doing these two stretches, for the muscles that rotate the shoulder internally and externally:

external rotators:
http://www.exrx.net/Stretches/Infras...roomstick.html

internal rotation:
http://www.exrx.net/Stretches/Subsca...roomstick.html

The pinching sensation I had in my back is vanishing, and I'm feeling my forearms to be getting better. Good Lord, I hope this is the beginning to fix this crap. It's been the bane of my existence for years, and it's been getting worse lately.

[Zendetta]

You are on target , Macho. A lot of wrist/forearm stuff is caused or exacerbated by shoulder disfunction - either circulatory issues or pressure on the brachial plexus.

Sounds like you have a good treatment routine. Add some acupuncture and stop masturbating and you'll be OK.

[Van Isle]

Dude, are you being serious? I've had accupunture done, and it's never hurted, except when the needles are placed in the earlobes. And even then, it's a minor discomfort, nothing like what you are describing.

I dunno why it hurt so much but I dont want to go through that pain again