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  1. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/24/2007 9:01pm

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Let's Talk Pain (Elbows and Shoulders)

    Let's talk pain. My elbows, both elbows, are giving me a hard time. The pain is localized in the inside where the forearms join the elbow (a la golfer's elbow, see pic):



    Furthermore, and just quite recently, I'm getting pain in the outside on my left forearm (a la tennis' elbow, see pic):



    I've always had this problem, for years. And I always dealt with by just sucking it up, putting icy-hot and wrapping my forearms with ACE bands or elbow support wraps. I thought the problem would heal with rest, and I've been basically resting for the last 6-7 weeks already, no grappling, no lifting, no nothing.

    But it's not healing. It's even getting worse. I went to the gym this past weekend, and I couldn't do chin ups or barbell rows at all. Bicep curls? Nope, unless I do hammer curls (which don't seem to give me any problems.)

    This is problematic, and I'm beginning to worry (****, I'm not getting any younger). I'm sure that some of you, specially those who have done lifting or grappling for years, have dealt with this ****.

    Short of getting cortisone injections (assuming my PCP prescribes them), what can be done?

    Have you guys dealt with this ****? And if so, how (hopefully with success)?
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
  2. PirateJon is offline
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    and good morning to you too

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    Posted On:
    4/25/2007 6:48am

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Dang dude. I've had similar symptoms but like you said wraps+rest always fixed it. If you find something that works post some follow ups for the rest of us 'gettin older' dudes.

    Good luck man.
    You can't make people smarter. You can expose them to information, but your responsibility stops there.
  3. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/25/2007 8:20am

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Hey PJ, I'll keep you and the rest of the old guys posted :) I have an appointment with a massage therapist today for 30 minutes and then for one hour on Friday. I'm going to ask her if massage can help. I do short massages to the affected areas from time to time (with this wood thing with knobs you can dig into the area and icy hot), and it helps a bit.

    The other possibility is cortisone injections (if my PCP suggests them). I had one on my back over 10 years ago - it was either cortisone or some other anti-inflamatory steroid injection, can't remember. That worked beautifully, even though it hurted like a bitch.

    But, that was for an accident, and not for a recurring condition due to overuse, and as I'm reading about cortisone injections, apparently, most docs don't like to give more than 3, plus there are side effects.

    I'm making an apo with my PCP as well (in two weeks from now)... so let's see what he says :(
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
  4. Marrt is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/25/2007 9:10am


     Style: default std

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by El Macho
    Let's talk pain. My elbows, both elbows, are giving me a hard time. The pain is localized in the inside where the forearms join the elbow (a la golfer's elbow, see pic):



    Furthermore, and just quite recently, I'm getting pain in the outside on my left forearm (a la tennis' elbow, see pic):



    I've always had this problem, for years. And I always dealt with by just sucking it up, putting icy-hot and wrapping my forearms with ACE bands or elbow support wraps. I thought the problem would heal with rest, and I've been basically resting for the last 6-7 weeks already, no grappling, no lifting, no nothing.

    But it's not healing. It's even getting worse. I went to the gym this past weekend, and I couldn't do chin ups or barbell rows at all. Bicep curls? Nope, unless I do hammer curls (which don't seem to give me any problems.)

    This is problematic, and I'm beginning to worry (****, I'm not getting any younger). I'm sure that some of you, specially those who have done lifting or grappling for years, have dealt with this ****.

    Short of getting cortisone injections (assuming my PCP prescribes them), what can be done?

    Have you guys dealt with this ****? And if so, how (hopefully with success)?
    How timely, I seem to have had a year of shoulder (partial RC tear, drug side-effect tendon issues, impingement) and arm problems.

    The rotator cuff stuff was standard rehab exercises. The tendon problem I'm still working through - changing my program, expanded shoulder and chest stretching routine, which helps correct/prevent the impingement.

    For your arms, hammer curls are a good exercise choice, as are over grip bicep bar curls.

    For me it was the brachialis

    http://www.rad.washington.edu/atlas/brachialis.html

    where the problem lay (and my symptoms sound like yours). Re cortisone, you may need a shot plus re-habing. The shot helps "unwind" things enough to enable your rehab exercises and stretching to work. With my RC tear I was prescribed Celebrex (which is a NSAID usually prescribed for Arthritis), so it was this plus rest and then re-hab.
  5. Wolf is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/25/2007 11:37am

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I had the same problem...started taking a glucosamine with MSM supplement. I feel 100 times better. I specifically recommend GNC's triflex. It's what I use, and a number of people I know use it. Whatever you get though make sure the glucosamine supplement has MSM. That's the natural sulfur that's really good at helping connective tissue heal better.

    edit: Oh and take a few days off when you start this stuff. Let the body have a chance to heel. And while it's sore your friends are ice and ibuprofin.
  6. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/25/2007 12:17pm

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     Style: creonte on hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Marrt
    How timely, I seem to have had a year of shoulder (partial RC tear, drug side-effect tendon issues, impingement) and arm problems.

    The rotator cuff stuff was standard rehab exercises. The tendon problem I'm still working through - changing my program, expanded shoulder and chest stretching routine, which helps correct/prevent the impingement.

    For your arms, hammer curls are a good exercise choice, as are over grip bicep bar curls.

    For me it was the brachialis

    http://www.rad.washington.edu/atlas/brachialis.html

    where the problem lay (and my symptoms sound like yours). Re cortisone, you may need a shot plus re-habing. The shot helps "unwind" things enough to enable your rehab exercises and stretching to work. With my RC tear I was prescribed Celebrex (which is a NSAID usually prescribed for Arthritis), so it was this plus rest and then re-hab.
    I had a problem with my brachialis back in college, but eventually it went away when I took a long break from lifting. That's about 2000. And that's when I first started noticing the pains in my forearms. What did your re-hab consisted of?

    BTW, my right shoulder hurts like a bitch in the mornings. I have to sleep with a pillow under my right arm to avoid turning over my right shoulder.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf
    I had the same problem...started taking a glucosamine with MSM supplement. I feel 100 times better. I specifically recommend GNC's triflex. It's what I use, and a number of people I know use it. Whatever you get though make sure the glucosamine supplement has MSM. That's the natural sulfur that's really good at helping connective tissue heal better.

    edit: Oh and take a few days off when you start this stuff. Let the body have a chance to heel. And while it's sore your friends are ice and ibuprofin.
    MSM is what I've been missing. I was taking a glucosamine/chordroitin combo, and a shark cartilage supplement on top of that. I'll take a look into triflex. Neildo also mentioned glucosajoint - some awful tasting liquid with glucosamine, chordroitin and MSM, with positive results.

    What I'm worried is that I haven't been doing anything with my forearms at all in almost two months (just push ups and squats here and there). I would have imagined the pain would go away, but it hasn't. That concerns me.

    We'll see. I'm seeing the massage therapist in 3 hours. Let's see what she says. There are two "knots" that you can feel with the fingers just a centimiter away from the medial epicondyle (where the ulna meets the elbow). I "dig" in them with my knuckles with icy hot, and that helps, but only temporarily. Hopefully she can do something. If so, I'll ask her to work on my left arm which is the one that's bugging me the most.
    Last edited by Teh El Macho; 4/25/2007 12:21pm at .
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
  7. PizDoff is online now

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    Posted On:
    4/25/2007 12:53pm

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     Style: Grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I haven't read anything conclusive about shark cartilage supplements, just conflicting info regarding if it works or not. Since I seem to always find it a bit more pricey I haven't tested it myself.

    I take a glucosamine, chondtritin, MSM combo. I strongly recommend for anyone lifting or having their joints twisted and pulled. I don't get much joint inflammation anymore, though if it gets really bad I'll take a ibuprofen, which is really rare.

    The massage therapist will help with the knots and tightness, I had a session on Sunday myself. In addition to that stretching the muscles surronding that area will help loosen you up.
  8. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/25/2007 4:03pm

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     Style: creonte on hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I just came from the massage therapist. I was 10 minutes late so she didn't have much time to work on my forearms since my right shoulder blade was more of a priority. She did have time to look at my left forearm, and she thinks she may be able to do something with the knots in it on Friday.

    Also, I'm about to finish my glucosamine/chordroitin caps, so I ordered the following glucosamine/chordroitin/MSM complex from bulknutrition.com (I've used another product from the same manufacturer, and I've been quite happy with it. Hopefully it will be of the same quality.)

    http://www.bulknutrition.com/?products_id=3293



    Product Facts:
    Serving Size (gels) 6
    Servings Per 15
    Vitamin E (IU) 15
    Niacin (mg) 23
    Folic Acid (mcg) 225
    Vitamin B12 (mcg) 113
    Manganese (mg) 7
    Glucosamine (mg) 1500
    Chondroitin (mg) 1200

    Omega fatty acids 600mg
    MSM (mg) 150
    Boswellia serrata 115mg
    Stinging nettle (mg) 70
    Turmeric root 40mg
    ALA (mg) 5
    BioperineComplex 10mg
    Ginger root
    Piper longum
    Black Pepper


    I also bought a 250 cap bottle of Boron (3mg) from Now Foods. I guess that should do it.
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
  9. Equipoise is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/25/2007 4:30pm

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    It could be one of two things, either tendinitis or a strength imbalance between the muscles of the forearm and possible the anconeus or tricep area.
  10. Marrt is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/25/2007 4:34pm


     Style: default std

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by El Macho
    I had a problem with my brachialis back in college, but eventually it went away when I took a long break from lifting. That's about 2000. And that's when I first started noticing the pains in my forearms. What did your re-hab consisted of?

    BTW, my right shoulder hurts like a bitch in the mornings. I have to sleep with a pillow under my right arm to avoid turning over my right shoulder.

    What I'm worried is that I haven't been doing anything with my forearms at all in almost two months (just push ups and squats here and there). I would have imagined the pain would go away, but it hasn't. That concerns me.
    As I said above, hammer curls and over-grip curls, on a straight or E-Z bar are good. I alternated between (and otherwise, except for use in compound exercises, did nothing on arms). A lot of stretching of my forearms, e.g right arm straight out in front of you, palm facing up, grab across your fingers at about middle joint, bend down and pull back towards you. Should feel stretch all along inside forearm running down to your brach. Practice this stretch at different points during the day. I also got accupuncture which worked pretty well (combined with massage). Again, per others, you probably need to get those knots worked out before it can really get better.

    Now, for shoulder.... sheesh, bunches of stuff. For me, I certainly wouldn't have a pillow under my arm as, in my case, that just exacerbates the whole impingement problem, i.e, you don't want to roll your shoulders inwards. If you've not seen it, I recommend the 7 minute rotator cuff book - it doesn't take 7 minutes (longer) but it has a bunch of stretches and exercises that are good for your shoulders. It also gives a great explanation on general shoulder mobility and what you should be careful of in terms of enabling blood flow to tendons and muscles in the cuff group. see your PMs.

    ---- postscript

    Your gripper stuff may be exacerbating it, to Equipoise's point on imbalance.
    Last edited by Marrt; 4/25/2007 4:38pm at .
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