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  1. JBDzn is offline

    Featherweight

    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    37

    Posted On:
    7/30/2007 12:45pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: JKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Well, gentlemen I truly enjoyed the decision of the appellate bench of the great "Sunshine State." For the benefit all non-lawyer bystanders I feel that a useful primer on the subject came out our cyber-sparring session.

    By pointing out my bluebook ruminations and eloquently noting the experienced PI litigator strategies and tactics employed by litigators when faced with the position taken by my adversary, Judge Jonas summarized what many attorneys who train in the MA have noted for some time, to wit, depending upon the totality of the individual case's circumstances and facts, a claim arising from a MA instructor's reliance upon a written contract with a student might result in a costly legal battle.


    The subjectiveness of what constitutes "Self-Defense" notwithstanding local MA instructors continue to market such programs to the general public; even teaching such programs in local schools,e.g., Robert Young's editorial in the May, 2007 edition of Black Belt magazine touched upon the subject of teaching seventh grade school girls TKD gun disarms. It is only a matter of time before some enterprising litigator gets his client in front of the right judge and jury regarding such a claim and depending upon the result, the will be some state legislator stepping into fray with a piece of legislation to "protect" the citizenry from the wrongs the courts failed to address regarding the claim.

    Finally, I commend appellate Judge Jonas on acknowledging the lack of jurisdiction presented in the matter herein and I shall reflect carefully on the bench's commentary regarding Florida law.

    Accordingly I deem the matter res judicata.

    Now, who do we bill for this:happy7:
  2. Sam Browning is offline

    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    9,864

    Posted On:
    7/31/2007 2:37am

    hall of famestaff
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I suggest we bill Stephen Oliver who visited here to post on a thread concerning his "million dollar dojo", where he charges people $300+ a month for group lessons. When in doubt find the deep pocket!
  3. JBDzn is offline

    Featherweight

    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    37

    Posted On:
    8/01/2007 2:44am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: JKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    LOL. I've read some of Oliver's MA trade magazine columns , etc. He actually posted on Bullshido?
  4. Sam Browning is offline

    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    9,864

    Posted On:
    8/01/2007 1:07pm

    hall of famestaff
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    http://www.bullshido.net/forums/show...=Steven+Oliver

    He shows up a couple pages in. I should say in Stephen's defense that he was willing to come and argue his side whereas John Graden,(sp) formerly of NAPMA refused to come here.
  5. JBDzn is offline

    Featherweight

    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    37

    Posted On:
    8/01/2007 1:48pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: JKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Thanks for the thread link. I started reading it but had to stop due to its length. I will go through the whole thread later to address my current information deficit.

    I am intrigued that such a commercial MA instructor would post on Bullshido. I always tell my MA classmates about Bullshido if they really want to know the truth about some of the more outlandish MA instructors out there. Including those who boast of thousands of students and huge monthly revenues due to their "members only" marketing programs that you can purchase.

    Again, thanks.
  6. JBDzn is offline

    Featherweight

    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    37

    Posted On:
    8/15/2007 3:46pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: JKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Samuel Browning,

    I finally got 27 pages into the thread and then jumped around a bit due to time considerations. I have to agree with you that Steven Oliver hung in there for quite some time regarding his practices. The man presents an articulate if somewhat verbose defense of his business practices. I noted how many times simple questions resulted in him providing answers that were more like arguments addressing other issues. His application of a marketing and pricing structure that treats MA instruction as a tangible commdity is one that seems to be growing in the MA community. The "what's wrong with being a businessman" mantra that I hear more and more as I travel around the country is a straw man. There is nothing wrong with being a businessman as far as being a MA instructor goes. What is wrong is being a businessman who is without ethics or a clear cut sense of right and wrong. Mr. Oliver enjoys his success and will probably not relent in his desire to franchise his business plan and philosophy as long as he can. Therefore as long he runs an above board operation consistent with regulations governing franchising and consumer protection statutes he will continue his business practices. Now I want to revise the bill to add more hours:read2:
  7. Chizilds is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    484

    Posted On:
    8/15/2007 3:57pm


     Style: BJJ - SBGi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I have a GREAT example of an iron clad TKD contract that I can edit and send in.... just tell me where!
  8. Sam Browning is offline

    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    9,864

    Posted On:
    8/15/2007 8:38pm

    hall of famestaff
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You could retype the text here or scan the document and place it here. If it has a logo just cover it up.
  9. boondock lee is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    219

    Posted On:
    8/19/2007 1:04pm


     Style: in hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    wow, umm, this is looks pretty bad, im in kuk sool and I have seen this contract, although at the time i thought it didn't seem like a bad thing. I was proven wrong because i was charged on days that i didn't go. Now my instructors are nice people and the head instructor is a good teacher, ( i actually feared her when she taught because she would push everyone to the point of our physical limits.) But i didn't like the way we were constanly being charged. So now here I am at the end of my contract, and i still want to continue but i don't want to be lure into
    another contract. I guess i'll have to talk to my instructor to see what i can do and hope for the best. STUPID CONTRACT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  10. leec123 is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    lincolnshire, england
    Posts
    693

    Posted On:
    1/14/2008 11:15am


     Style: MT,full contact JJ,Sudoku

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    wow.
    compared to my experiences in the uk, it is much more of a commercial venture across the pond. The most I have seen over here is a comprehensive student questionnaire(regarding medical problems etc)which is updated yearly and kept on file. As an instructor, I hold comprehensive insurance, all students must purchase their own insurance after the first month of training.

    As far as contracts go, I personally have never had one, and do not enforce one and have always been pay per session. Though I am aware that a lot of the (predominantly Korean) schools do operate on a direct debit system, with Guaranteed black belt after 2 years.(It took me 7 in our JJ school-which is considered about right to reach that level)
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