222180 Bullies, 3840 online  
  • Register
Our Sponsors:

Results 11 to 20 of 49
Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 12 345 LastLast
Sponsored Links Spacer Image
  1. Uchi Mala is offline
    Uchi Mala's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Bay Area
    Posts
    8

    Posted On:
    5/23/2007 1:40pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: BJJ Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Auvenshine
    I'm curious. Why fill out a form when you quit? And you say this is with EVERY school you have ever gone to? I don't see any sense to it. What am I missing?
    I'd venture that it's probably to give notice for billing purposes.
  2. Roidie McDouchebag is offline
    Roidie McDouchebag's Avatar

    Injury Waiting To Happen

    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Kamloops, BC
    Posts
    9,419

    Posted On:
    5/23/2007 3:01pm

    supporting member
     Style: Snatch Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Bill Auvenshine, you teach TKD, making you an example of what nobody wants anyway, but thank you for reinforcing that point.

    In the nightmare contract, there is one point that they may have fucked themselves with:

    Quote Originally Posted by That ****
    Kuk Sool Won of _______ obligates itself to furnish me with competent instruction
    Now, if they're claiming to teach self defence, that's a lawsuit waiting to happen.

    Also, they can make you sign whatever they want when it comes to injuries/medical issues, but if you get hurt, you can still sue the **** out of them and win.
  3. Sam Browning is offline

    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    9,847

    Posted On:
    5/24/2007 9:26pm

    hall of famestaff
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Cracky McSlugHoot

    Also, they can make you sign whatever they want when it comes to injuries/medical issues, but if you get hurt, you can still sue the **** out of them and win.
    The enforceability of such injury waivers varies from state to state in America. So its not as simple as you say.
  4. Roidie McDouchebag is offline
    Roidie McDouchebag's Avatar

    Injury Waiting To Happen

    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Kamloops, BC
    Posts
    9,419

    Posted On:
    5/24/2007 9:35pm

    supporting member
     Style: Snatch Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The circumstances vary also, but what I mean is, if the instructor hurts you, and they're claiming competent instruction...
  5. Sam Browning is offline

    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    9,847

    Posted On:
    5/24/2007 9:47pm

    hall of famestaff
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Cracky McSlugHoot
    The circumstances vary also, but what I mean is, if the instructor hurts you, and they're claiming competent instruction...
    So your argument is that an instructor would not have the protection under a waiver for his own negligent actions that he might otherwise have for negligently supervising his class when someone was hurt?

    Note that I am not talking about INTENTIONAL actions like assault which are usually exempt from such releases.
  6. Roidie McDouchebag is offline
    Roidie McDouchebag's Avatar

    Injury Waiting To Happen

    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Kamloops, BC
    Posts
    9,419

    Posted On:
    5/26/2007 3:47am

    supporting member
     Style: Snatch Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    No.

    Also, I was thinking, you could just try flat out suing them over claiming to teach self-defence competently.
  7. Sam Browning is offline

    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    9,847

    Posted On:
    5/27/2007 1:06am

    hall of famestaff
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Better have your expert witnesses ready for that court battle. :)
  8. GoldenJonas is offline

    Light Heavyweight

    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Orlando, Florida
    Posts
    3,378

    Posted On:
    5/27/2007 11:33pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Samuel Browning
    So your argument is that an instructor would not have the protection under a waiver for his own negligent actions that he might otherwise have for negligently supervising his class when someone was hurt?

    Note that I am not talking about INTENTIONAL actions like assault which are usually exempt from such releases.
    In the case of MA training the good 'ole defense of "Assumption of the Risk" and "Voluntary Participation in an Inherently Dangerous Activity" could pose a significant problem for the viability of a cause of action for your run of the mill negligence.

    Typically, you would like to see the facts present themselves as such that you can claim that the instructor's actions reach the level of wanton, reckless, or grossly negligent. This all depends heavily on the tort law and recognized defenses in the particular State or jurisdiction.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cracky McSlugHoot
    Also, I was thinking, you could just try flat out suing them over claiming to teach self-defence competently.
    For the exact reason stated by Sam, as well as a number of evidenciary and basic element necessities/problems that are completely lacking or cost prohibitive to prove (assuming you COULD prove them at all) a law suit based on these grounds would be a waste of time and money.
  9. JBDzn is offline

    Featherweight

    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    37

    Posted On:
    5/28/2007 6:28am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: JKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    After reading the contract, I noticed that it contained the representation that competent instruction in self defense would be provided. Since the basic premise of a binding contract requires "a meeting of the minds" between the parties it stands to reason that some definition of "self-defense" as it relates to the style in question should have been made a part of the contract. From a pro consumer perspective the contract fails to state what it is the consumer is purchasing. That's right, purchasing; if you are paying money for someting you are purchasing it. MA instructors better hope that their disgrunted former students don't lobby with the local state governments for inclusion of MA instruction to be covered under the consumer fraud statutes that exist in many states. Imagine the consequences.
  10. Bill Auvenshine is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Illinois
    Posts
    47

    Posted On:
    5/31/2007 11:51am


     Style: Taekwondo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    MA instructors better hope that their disgrunted former students don't lobby with the local state governments for inclusion of MA instruction to be covered under the consumer fraud statutes that exist in many states. Imagine the consequences.

    That's the rub. Martial arts, or to narrow it down, the business of teaching an art, is an unregulated industry. (mostly). For instance if someone named "Joe Smith" wished to teach "street fighting", he would need no certification to do so. (perhaps business license but they don't prove anything) He could call it "Joe's School of Street Fighting". So long as there were people buying whatever he was selling he would be in business. There are many schools who do not fully teach an art. I teach TKD. That is all I claim to do and I don't even mention that in my contract, other than to point out that TKD training could cause some injury.
    My contract really does no more than formalize what I am teaching. ANY contract that demands you pay, even if you don't stay, or makes you pay all up front or any any other way demands you pay for something after you no longer want it should be filed in the round bin.
    Last edited by Tom Kagan; 7/09/2007 8:28pm at . Reason: Move 2nd half tangent to another thread
Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 12 345 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Powered by vBulletin™© contact@vbulletin.com vBulletin Solutions, Inc. 2011 All rights reserved.