I believe he is trying to elude to the fact that he is teaching a very useful and effective martial art safely , and without offending Jesus with all the blood , sweat , and tears that comes with the learning process.
Originally Posted by FLMKane
Much like how he used to elude that his grappling program was like Gracie Jui jitsu . I have yet seen Ray give a straight answer about anything .
Of course he was not qualified to teach any form of kickboxing last time we looked him over and communicated with him . If he has managed to get some new certificates , it would have to be something like Taibo .
He should just list ithe class as jazzercise to the latest Christian Music avoid any confusion as to what skills his students are going to be learning .
Originally Posted by ghost55
“I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out.”
alright!!!!! so i give up!
i need someone to pm me their email or something that way i can get the scanned copies of the info.
i can't seem to get the them to transfer on to the forum....%$#%#^%$$!!!!!!!!!!
somebody please let me know.
You're allowed to swear here.
I have been to the man's school. I didn't go to a class, nor did I see him. However, I will tell you this. He has a student worker, real nice guy. There has also been a janitor of sorts cleaning the mat.
I have seen pictures of the "India" trip. I went with a minister who is my judo student. He validated that it was India. I also have seen all the scripture painted on the wall, I believe it is cool if you are speaking to your audience. The thing is though as my minister friend pointed out.....In the bible it says, "You shall call no one Master but the one who grants you salvation."
I understand "Titles" and everything but for someone that is so religious would they not make a big deal about not wanting to be called "Master".
One thing that struck me as "Good" was the fact that if a student couldn't pay their monthly tuition then they could do community service or work it off to come up with the difference.
I looked at their schedule and the only thing that bothered me was that hapkido and jiujitsu were offered as a 2 on 2 off cycle. I have been in Judo a long time, as well as hapkido. I am here to tell you that you cannot learn or retain a solid cirriculum with arts like that. It has to be done a long time.
I look at it like this: Rodrigo Vaghi has his certificates hanging up along with his belts from competition. At the school I train at the GM has his certificates hanging on the wall. Myself, well I have my certificates hanging on the wall in my basement. I do have private sessions in my basement that is equipped with a mat.
I am not a judge of anyone, style, or school. I have enough trouble keeping up with my judo program and hapkido training.
The thing is this: Maybe I am old school in believing that a Martial Art has a distinction that separates it from the others. Hodgepodges never really held a lot of credibility with me. I look at it like this, I am a brown belt in hapkido. I have been a brown belt for a long time and have no want or rush for red. I believe in getting technique down. I was a Marine so credibility and being able to do are important to me.
When I meet new students or prospects to the school I say "I am Matt Morton the Judo Instructor." I don't say "I am Mr. Morton....." Hell even our GM says the following "Hi, I'm Charles Hildebrand....." Now everyone calls him sir for obvious resons however the following is most certainly true......
When I visited Ray's academy everyone said "Master Ray this Master Ray that." I mean geez I haven't heard that much 3rd person speaking since boot camp in San Diego 1993.
Last edited by matt.m; 2/01/2009 5:58pm at .
I've lurked this thread for quite some time, occasionally over the past year, primarily because of its local importance to me.
Apparently, the collective efforts of those here on bullshido.net have made a difference and the good Master has caved in. He now no longer teaches martial arts, but rather leads a "Christian martial arts ministry." Cut-n-pasted the Prologue to the Gospel according to Steven Ray from his updated website:
ST. LOUIS MARTIAL ARTS CENTER IS A MINISTRY, NOT A GYM. WE ARE VERY UNIQUE IN WHAT WE DO AND DO NOT IDENTIFY OURSELF WITH THE AVERAGE MARTIAL ARTS SCHOOL. WE ARE A CHRISTIAN MARTIAL ARTS MINISTRY. MOST PEOPLE DO NOT UNDERSTAND OR EVEN HAVE HEARD OF A CHRISTIAN MARTIAL ARTS MINISTRY. OUR MINISTRY CAN NOT BE COMPARED TO THE AVERAGE MARTIAL ARTS SCHOOL BECAUSE WE ARE TOTALLY DIFFERENT IN HOW WE OPERATE AND WHAT WE TEACH. OUR PHILOSOPHY AND TEACHINGS COME FROM A BIBLICAL PERSPECTIVE. THE EASIEST WAY TO UNDERSTAND WHAT WE ARE IS TO THINK OF A BUDDHIST TEMPLE BUT INSTEAD OF TEACHING BUDDHISM WE TEACH CHRISTIANITY. WE ARE A CHURCH THAT BELIEVES IN GROWING SPIRITUALLY, MENTALLY AND PHYSICALLY TO BECOME A WELL BALANCED WARRIOR FOR CHRIST.
I just visited the site after about a year in between. For your convenience: http://stlouismartialartscenter.com/ It's worth a look-see again. Be sure to use www.archive.org and compare the changes.
Well, there you have it, folks. The Master is now a minister and hence above your petty criticisms...he's doing the Lord's work now through the medium of the martial arts. Thus, to question Master Ray is to question God Himself. His technique is as gentle as our loving Heavenly Father's. Of course God could destroy you easily...but His compassion prevents Him from doing so...just as Master Ray.
Well, it looks like God destroyed his questionable Martial Arts practice.
Originally Posted by dewey
God works in mysterious ways.
his ministry isn't affiliated with a major denomination, to my knowledge. i give it a year from now and he will be sunk.
Sorry but questioning S.C. Ray is what people should do. It says in the New Testament that you are to question those who speak in my name. Gee, Jim Jones needed to be questioned in Africa before folks drank the kool-aid but wasn't right?
Originally Posted by dewey
Plus people who announce themselves as Master is full of crap and need a dose of humble. Afterall didn't Christ show the epitome of humility? The answer is yes.
Plus I know a lot of people with the title Master in the martial arts community. From my experience people that are "True" masters don't want to be referred to by that title.
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