AK: Giving new meaning to the word "Unfair."
Posted On:4/19/2007 10:47am
Style: Out-Of-Shape MMA
Master S.C. Ray of St Louis Martial Arts Center, has caught my attention by being a douche, but there might be a whole lot more than just douchery afoot.
A forum user posing a Master Tim Hellerich of Choson Martial Arts, whose school is in geographical position to compete with Master Ray's school, forwarded an inflammatory email to our very own BackFistMonkey, with the following text:
Tim Hellerich <firstname.lastname@example.org > wrote:
Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2007 15:31:54 -0800 (PST)
From: Tim Hellerich <email@example.com >
Subject: Idiot Fighter!
I was just looking online with my friend and saw a fight with these two idiots (Don & Airman Kai). What a joke. They need to fight against a TKD fighter. They wouldn't have a chance. They were slow and weak. Take a look at www.bullshido.com
I would like to see him at MY SCHOOL!
Choson Martial Arts
Get your own web address.
Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.
Now, I had a conversation with Mr. Hellerich in September of '06, and again when this issue came to my attention yesterday, and he does NOT strike me as the kind of person to write an email like this.
According to Mr. Hellerich, Master S.C. Ray has been behind several smear and sabotage attempts in the past. I think douchery like that deserves a closer look, from ALL angles.
Posted On:4/19/2007 10:50am
This picture alone is worrisome:
...but just to expand a little, here's the front page of Master S.C. Ray's St Louis Martial Arts Center webpage:
At the St. Louis Martial Arts Center we strive to teach discipline, focus, confidence, and many more life skills along with excellent self-defense. We are located in Florissant, MO in North County St. Louis. Master Ray teaches a combination of many different martial arts styles such as the following:Tae Kwon Do (WTF system, Olympic sparring)Kung Fu (Wing Chun, Five Animal Styles, Chinese Boxing, and Tai Chi)Hapkido (Korean Art of Self Defense)Jiu-Jitsu (very similar to Gracie jiu-jitsu style) <---$$$Kickboxing (no contact) <---WTF?Many Weapons (Bo-staff, sai, escrima, sword, knife, nunchakus, metal fighting fan, etc?..)At St. Louis Martial Arts Center our focus is to help to you reach your greatest potential in a very positive professional manner by teaching you leadership skills that will help you in all areas of your life. Call today and mention this website and receive a FREE LESSON for you or your entire family. Whether you want to get in better shape, learn more discipline, be a national competitor or be in a martial arts movie, we can help you to obtain your goals. Master Ray?s goal is to help you to achieve YOUR goals!
Most people do not realize the true importance of martial arts training. There are many reasons why martial arts should be a priority for you and your family. It is a mistake to ask our children if they are interested in taking martial arts instead of making it a requirement. Of course, all parents want their children to enjoy it and most of them certainly do. Asking a child if they are interested in martial arts is the same as asking them, ?Do you want to learn to show respect, do you want to learn discipline, do you want to exercise and work hard, do you want to learn to control your temper, and do you want to learn to focus better on your school work?? These lessons should not be an option for our children or for ourselves. A martial arts program is not just about kicking and punching, it is about life skills and character development.
Here is a question to ask yourself:
Do you think you or your child will be successful with just a scholastic education if you or they have not learned discipline, confidence, respect, perseverance, leadership and goal setting? Of course not, and martial arts education provides those necessary life skills to be successful.
Another question for parents:
If someone were to try to kidnap or molest your child, do they have the necessary skills to defend themselves? How much would it be worth to you as a parent if a child molester or kidnapper tried to take your child and they defended themselves and got away? Do you understand that these things are happening everyday? Do you think that there is no way that it will ever happen to your child? We must love our children enough to provide self-defense training so that they can truly defend themselves from an attacker.
FAMILIES THAT KICK TOGETHER, STICK TOGETHER!
FAMILIES THAT PRAY TOGETHER, STAY TOGETHER!
And from his Bio Page:
Master S.C. Ray is known for his excellence in teaching and his integrity. The students of St. Louis Martial Arts Center truly can see Master Ray's heart. He cares about his students and makes many sacrifices to make sure they get the best instruction which they deserve. Martial Arts is not about fighting, it is about Spiritual, Mental and Physical development. Master Ray focuses on helping his students reach their greatest potential in all of these areas.
Most master instructor's are very good in their physical techniques but if they don't truly care about their students and have good teaching skills then you should find a master instructor that does. Master Ray is that instructor. Here is a little bit about Master Ray's qualifications:Started training at 7 years of age6th Degree Black Belt in Tae Kwon Do (Through Grandmaster Y.S. Choi of Colorado "Sun Do Sul")5th Degree Black Belt in Kung Fu (Through Sifu Eric "The Dragon" Hurst "Shaolin, 5-Animal Styles, WingChun")Practitioner of:Hapkido / AikidoJiu-jitsu / JudoNinjitsu / Many WeaponsKickboxing / Boxingand others1990 - Opened Dragon Ray Martial Arts in Ellisville, MO1998 - Director of World Martial Arts in South County St. Louis1999 - Owner of World Martial Arts in Florissant, MO2000 - Owner of World Martial Arts in Olivette, MO2003 - Started St. Louis Christian Martial Arts System2004 - Opened St. Louis Martial Arts Center in Florissant, MO
I'm currently looking into how valid these qualifications are.
Last edited by Airman Kai; 4/19/2007 11:11am at .
BJJ wins again!
Posted On:4/19/2007 12:21pm
Jiu-Jitsu (very similar to Gracie jiu-jitsu style)
I'll call bullshit right here. If his JJ were "similar to Gracie Jiu-Jitsu" he'd be calling it Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu and leaving it at that. I'd like to know who his instructor for this art is. Does Ray instruct this JuJitsu program?
Posted On:4/19/2007 12:49pm
Dunno about who teaches the Jiu Jitsu classes, but I've looked a little moreinto some other issues.
The Only Y.S. Choi I can locate as of this time is Grandmaster Y.S. Choi of Kentucky, not Colorado, as Stephen Ray's Bio states. Also, THIS Choi's Bio makes no mention of the certification's "Sun DO Sul" style.
Also, I could be mistaken, but when did 6th Dan become a TKD (or even Korean) Rank?
I thought it was Chodan and the like?
As for his "Dragon Kung Fu" certification... wow. I'll have to gather myself a little more before I get into that. Just take a look at "Sifu" Eric Hurst's page, and you'll understand.
Last edited by Airman Kai; 4/19/2007 2:55pm at .
Posted On:4/19/2007 12:53pm
I'm no expert but, Chinese Certificates tend to have quite a bit more Chinese.
Also, I find it funny that he is level eight on the certificate but, he is a fifth degree in kung fu.
Anyway I suppose this is his teachers website.
Ouch, I really didn't want to post the link.
Warning casio keyboard music.
*edit* I see what you did Airman. At least people can go right to the website sorry.
Last edited by It is Fake; 4/19/2007 12:58pm at .
Originally Posted by doofaloofa
Posted On:4/19/2007 1:16pm
Style: BJJ, MT, Yoga
If he sent the email you should be able to look at the headers which are generated. These are not likely to be spoofed the way the 'from' address can be,
Posted On:4/19/2007 3:26pm
I cannot find ANYTHING on the Sun Do Sul Style, anybody got anything?
I gave Master S.C. Ray a call, and he said he'd give HIS Y.S. Choi a call and he'd then get back to me. Yah.:5headache
Posted On:4/19/2007 3:35pm
Style: wah lum kungfu
The stench of Bull is strong!! Love Swoops site, and the rates he charges for an hour...
Posted On:4/19/2007 3:47pm
"Master Dragon" is a gold mine all by himself, but check out Master Ray's "Frequently Asked Questions." These are the most frequent questions he gets? I'd move. Seriously.
Originally Posted by STL Martial Arts Center FAQ
Q: Isn't Martial Arts a cult?
A: No, the meaning of "Martial Arts" is to enforce the law or morals with skill. There are cults that practice Martial Arts but anyone can practice Martial Arts just as they would an aerobic exercise class.
Q: Aren't we supposed to turn the other cheek?
A: In context, Jesus is speaking to his disciples telling them to turn the other cheek to each other, not to the enemy. We are not supposed to let Satan rule over us but instead we are to rule over him. Look at Psalm 144:1.
Q. Isn't Christ our defense? Why should we defend ourselves?
A: Remember when God helped David defeat Goliath? God was David's defense but he used David's skill to defeat the giant. If God weren't with David, David would be dead. When using Martial Arts to defend yourself you cannot count on your own abilities and strength but on God's ability and protection. We are not to have confidence in the flesh. We must let God use us to defeat the enemy and He gets the glory!
Q. Why do I have to sign a contract?
A: God is a God of covenant promises and we should be too. If we make a commitment to God and default on our vows then we will have to suffer the consequences. We need to make a commitment because God believes in commitment. Without a commitment there will be no success in anything we do.
Q. Why is everyone yelling?
A: In Martial Arts the "ki-hap" means a yell of power. This helps the Martial Artist in the following areas:
Distracts the opponentHelps absorb a punch if you get hitBuilds confidenceHelps you gain power in your technique.
Q. What if I can't make it to class?
A: We do not extend your contract unless we get a written notice stating that you will be absent from class for at least I month. Otherwise you can try to come extra times for a couple weeks to make it up. Try to use Saturdays to make up classes.
Q. What if I am late for class?
A: When late for class, line up in the back of the classroom so that you do not disturb anyone else. (Do 20 Extra Push-Ups)
Q. Can I bring mends to class with me?
A: You can bring as many mends and family members to class with you as you want and they will receive a FREE lesson. (Students that are fulfilling their leadership requirement can give one mend per belt 2 lessons free)
Q. I thought the bible says to call no one "Master"?
A: There are different meanings for the word "Master" in the bible. One is "Rabbi" which means "my great one". You should only address the Lord in this manner. Another one is "kathegetese" meaning guide. The bible says to not use this term either because we are all brethren if we are in Christ. The Holy Spirit is our guide. Another is "kurios" which means, "Owner or Chief'. This one is the proper term to use for your Martial Arts master. Another is "didaskalos" which means "teacher", "one who draws a crowd". This one is also OK to use.
Q. How do I test?
A: There is a testing every last Friday of the month. If you have received (3) three tapes (red, white, blue) on your belt then you are to come to testing. Yellow Stripe Belts and up need (4) four tapes, one being a black tape for your leadership requirement. Testing forms should be filled out and turned in at least 2 days before testing day. Testing fees for each belt are $50 if paid within five days of your last promotion. Testing is $60 if paid after five days of your last promotion. Bo-Dahn testing is $90 and Black Belt testing is $150 and includes a Black Belt Uniform (Private testing is available for an additional $10)
Q: What must I do if I want to cancel my contract?
A: We do NOT honor cancellations due to laziness, lack of dedication or loss of interest. The following are accepted cancellations:
Mental or Physical Disability with a doctor's note.You move more than 25 miles away from our school.
NOTE: If you have a financial crisis, speak to Master Ray to work out a solution. (We are not obligated to cancel your contract due to financial difficulties)
Last edited by Don Gwinn; 4/19/2007 3:51pm at .
Posted On:4/19/2007 3:56pm
I do like the whole God God God God God....by the way if you have a financial situation you will pay us.
Also, isn't referring to someone this way"You can bring as many mends" a warning sign of a cult?
Last edited by It is Fake; 4/19/2007 3:59pm at .
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