Martial arts teams protest another hijab ban

[Teh El Macho]

If you follow the other thread, the issue there was a safety concern that wearing the hajib could result in strangulation. These was soccer players where I could see the fabric inadvertently getting caught in another player's hand.

I think sports clothing lines should design something like a swimmer's skull cap, with tighter fitting material, as a hajib for the head region. As my understanding the hajib is something used for modesty, could something else not cover that area up? Think:

PizzDoff wins the thread. Regardless of what people think on the issue, such a sports garment will provide a good accomodation to all parties involved.

Gee where was all these people complaining about not being able to wear this stuff before 9/11?

What does 9/11 have to do with these people? Really, I'm asking in earnest... and I'm looking forward to hear your reply.

Try going to Iran or any other middle-eastern country and getting them to let you wear a cross around your neck or carry a bible, they'll shoot you. Yet Canada has to accommodate ever last request they make in the name of human rights...

Irrelevant. That's what makes Canada different from Iran.

Furthermore, what the **** does Iran's internal policy has to do with Canadian citizens that happen to be muslims? Yes, they are Canadian citizens, and I'm more than sure the majority of those girls were born in Canada, and have never lived in Iran (and very likely are not even of Iranian origin).

Bringing Iran into the picture is a fucktacularly weak argument, regardless of who must accomodate who. Poop pellets of ad hominen, red herrings and strawmans, all blended into one, single large poop.

-- EDIT --

PizzDoff, if I could +rep for that one post, I would.

[Shu2jack]

The question I have,

Before muslim women with scarfs became a "hot topic", were the girls allowed to wear them in TKD tournaments? I think answering this question will pretty much answer who is the pain in the ass here. Either the Canadians all of a sudden didn't want the girls to wear their religious material or all of a sudden the girls wanted to make a statement.

And honestly, I think the Canadians are correct on this one. They have every right to equally enforce their safety rules and dress code. If muslims, or any group, does not like it they can start their own TKD tournaments with their rules. That is being accomdating. Allowing different groups to do their own thing.

[NorthWest]

The question I have,

Before muslim women with scarfs became a "hot topic", were the girls allowed to wear them in TKD tournaments? I think answering this question will pretty much answer who is the pain in the ass here. Either the Canadians all of a sudden didn't want the girls to wear their religious material or all of a sudden the girls wanted to make a statement.

Looks like the answer is no.

From the WTF's competition rules.

2.
Contestant Uniform and Protective Equipment
1) The contestant shall wear the trunk protector, head protector, groin guard, forearm guards, shin guards, gloves and a mouthpiece before entering the contest area.
2) The groin guard, forearm guards and shin guards shall be worn beneath the Taekwondo uniform. The contestant shall bring this WTF-approved protective equipment, as well as gloves and the mouthpiece, for his/her personal use. Wearing any item on the head other than the head protector shall not be permitted.

Doesn't look like much room for debate there.

[jtkarate]

Originally Posted by El Macho

What does 9/11 have to do with these people? Really, I'm asking in earnest... and I'm looking forward to hear your reply.

the reason I gave the 9/11 date is because it seemed that before that date hardly anything was said about the muslim community.

Now after 9/11 and with the war happening with members of that faith being involved (even though they were radical fanatics) that every little thing done whether it was intentional or not is now being brought out.

It just seems that IMO that once something happens to a specific race,creed,sexual prefrnce,etc that for awhile after even the smallest thing gets blown up then it dies back down. But that is just my observation.

[Shu2jack]

Northwest,

I know what the rules say, but I was wondering if exceptions were being made in the past. If not, I don't see why these girls are making a big deal out of it now. They knew what was going to happen and they were not going into that tournament to compete.

[Teh El Macho]

The question is whether this was enforced before, or if these group of kids are trying to make an statement.

The thing is that people on both sides of the argument have their head deeply buried in their collective asses.

First, the competition ruleset: they aren't the freaking constitution or the ten commandments. They are open to modification. Keep in mind that those rulesets weren't really considering every bit of human diversity when they were created. No fault on the creators of the rules, but on the fucking people who enforce them now and on the fucking people who are having an issue with these rules.

The sports organizers could very well arrange or propose modifications and caveats to the rules. Similarly, they could propose appropriate, sports-safe head clothing (see PizDoff's post).

The girls in this debate (and those who want to make it a East-vs-West issue), notice that NOT all muslim women are required to wear a hijab, just in the same way that not every Jewish man is required (or expected) to wear a skullcap, or a Christian wearing a cross at all times.

Muslim sportwomen who feel they need to wear the hijab could easely come to the same idea of using sports-safe head clothing, or organize their own competitions in the meantime. And they should also be aware that their are things in their faith that will make certain activities impossible. Amish, Sikhs, Orthodox Jews know this. They should not expect any different from them.

The key for both sides of the argument is to reach agreement through compromise. Instead, both are taking it like a fucking racial issue (muslims going "aw, they are forcing us to stop being muslims, blah blah blah" while the others go "aw, they are forcing us to accomodate them, forcing us to stop being who we are, blah blah blah.")

It's just arrogant "blah, blah, blah, me, me, me, me-me-me-me, me" from both of them.

As for the retards that keep saying "ehhhh, not all Jews wear skull caps, now all Christians wear crosses". Fucking fucktards. The same applies to muslims. And there are Jewish and Christian denomiations that insist and demand a certain dress code.

You can't possibly tell a person, regardless of their religious denomination, to relax their religions restrictions just because another denomination does not have them. A religions denomination (and all the pros and cons that come with it) is not a fucking LA fitness gym membership card.

[Teh El Macho]

the reason I gave the 9/11 date is because it seemed that before that date hardly anything was said about the muslim community.

Now after 9/11 and with the war happening with members of that faith being involved (even though they were radical fanatics) that every little thing done whether it was intentional or not is now being brought out.

It just seems that IMO that once something happens to a specific race,creed,sexual prefrnce,etc that for awhile after even the smallest thing gets blown up then it dies back down. But that is just my observation.

Gotcha. You have a good point, btw.

[vigilus]

My opinion is that the rules state what is and isn't allowed in the Tournament. You don't have Jews demanding to wear Skull Caps or Christians with Crosses swinging round their neck so why allow another religion to break the rules simply because it's the hot topic?

Bang on.
It says in the rules that it's not allowed, that should be the end of the argument.

I can't help but feel it's a simple attempt at a 'little victory' for them. Look once again we used our religion and the threat of racisim and religious intollerence to make them change their rules to acomodate us.

You know what, it's a fucking competition. Considering in many places, including the UK, muslim women aren't even allowed in mosques to pray. I think you can survive going without it for a few hours.

[cufaol]

Yes, they do. Just because you may get shot in Iran for wearing a cross doesn't mean we need to be any less accommodating. This really is a matter of trying to force people to conform to a culture. Asking someone to compromise their faith is not a reasonable request.

First off: Hello to everyone, I'm new to this forum, so feel free to frag my newbie e-alter ego. :5bouncy:

Now on-topic: With all due respect: yes it is. These girls ought to comply to the rules set by the TKD organisation. We have a similar problem in the country where I live (Belgium), in most of our schools, it is prohibited to wear anything on your head except your hair ofcourse. For years, no one ever made any kind of problem anout this...untill the muslis came. They are given house, clothing, jobs, money etc. by our government and the only thing we get in return is that they refuse to learn our language and that they reufse to comply to the rule of the law (saying that students aren't allowed any kind of headdress in classrooms.) A typical attitude for followers of a monotheïstic religion ofcourse, but that's just me.

Cheers,

Cufaol.

[rw4th]

This is how I see it:

It’s an international competition sport and the results mean something to the people who compete in it and they may affect their ranking and chance to compete on a larger scale. The rules for such things need to be enforced equally and mercilessly to ensure fairness and lack of bias; any flexibility here may result in complaints and voided results.

If the girls aren’t happy with the rule then they need to petition the organization that makes the rules. The refs acted correctly, if not popularly.