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  1. robsonok4u is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/15/2007 9:44am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: bjj

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Ok chingythingy, help me out here. If you are also with a Rigan affiliate, aren't you being somewhat hypocritical coming on here and questioning the credentials of one of his representatives without first going to your instructor or Rigan himself and asking what their position is??? That was exactly my point, while I may be a newbie there are tons of guys in our association who are not and none of them seem to be raising a fuss. How do you explain that? Mind you, I'm not being smart or flip in asking this question, I really don't understand. To me its like being a Catholic who doesn't believe in Jesus. Either go on a search for the anwers and try to re-affirm your faith or, if you don't find the answers you're looking for, leave the church and find one which fits your thinking better. Do you get my point?
  2. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/15/2007 9:56am

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     Style: xingyi

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by robsonok4u
    That was exactly my point, while I may be a newbie there are tons of guys in our association who are not and none of them seem to be raising a fuss. How do you explain that? Mind you, I'm not being smart or flip in asking this question, I really don't understand. To me its like being a Catholic who doesn't believe in Jesus. Either go on a search for the anwers and try to re-affirm your faith or, if you don't find the answers you're looking for, leave the church and find one which fits your thinking better. Do you get my point?
    Actually, this is a poor choice of an analogy. People high up hid things and no one raised a ruckus.

    The truth came out, people were forced to resign, and it cost the church a ton of money and parishioners.

    Sorry, sometimes you have to be the lone voice to get the ball rolling.
  3. Arclight is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/15/2007 10:01am


     Style: random

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    "there are tons of guys in our association who are not and none of them seem to be raising a fuss. How do you explain that? "

    You're kidding right? They're not raising a fuss because they have never heard of Robson or this whole issue. Those that have probably have not seen it in the level of detail disclosed here.

    As for mmafan's comment,

    "In this instance, someone else could have forged that letter like any of the Robson haters on here knowing that it would spark more controversy and further discredit Robson when someone discovered he was not a Carlson BB. Im NOT saying I think that actually happened."

    No, what you are NOT saying no matter how many different ways you are presented with info clearly you cannot explain around, is that Robson is ever to blame in any of these scenarios. Either it's a conspiracy, or there are forgeries, and so on. Jesus Christ man have you not heard of Occam's Razor? Apparently not, none of these glaring inconsistencies could ever be sourced to the very simple explanation that Robson is a sad liar and manipulator.
  4. Real Position is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/15/2007 10:15am


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by mmafan3450
    In this instance, someone else could have forged that letter like any of the Robson haters on here knowing that it would spark more controversy and further discredit Robson when someone discovered he was not a Carlson BB. Im NOT saying I think that actually happened.
    Someone on here forged the letter and THEN.....made Robson think the letter was REAL. Yeah, thats it! Whoaaaaaaaaaaaa, that's some spooky **** right there. This is a serious conspiracy if I ever saw one and makes the grassy knoll look like pre school.
  5. robsonok4u is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/15/2007 10:16am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: bjj

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    What I was trying to say, maybe not too well, was that as a member of Rigan's association, if I found out that, in fact, Robson is a fraud and Rigan knew it or simply didn't want to take the time to care, I think I would feel compelled to leave the association and train somewhere else rather than be part of a lie. I'm asking if others like chingythingy feel the same way and if so how do they justify staying with the association if they don't believe Robson is for real.
  6. duckII is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/15/2007 10:21am


     Style: bjj

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Jesus F'ing Christ let's get this settled right here and now. The letter's are not forgeries.

    BBinfu has told me and has gone on other threads and acknowledged that Robson supplied the info and that Marcos and Mansor signed them and that Marcos secured Rigan's signiture. There is no mystery with regard the letters.
  7. Real Position is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/15/2007 10:26am


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    As to the question about why Mansor chose to say he knew Sakata personally and that Sakata was a Carlson black belt. (BTW, Mansor said this in the signed letter that Robson's has confirmed as being real but mmafag now suggests may be forged.)

    That letter was signed and published on the internet in April 2006. Carlson Gracie Sr. passed away on February 1st, 2006. Mansor said Sakata was a Carlson black belt because he figured it would pass under the radar and Carlson was no longer alive to dispute it. What he didn't count on was the fact that many other low lifes like him and Robson would also attempt to violate a dead man by saying they were Carlson black belts also....prompting his wife and students to compile a comprehensive list of ALL of his black belts.

    Furthermore, Mansor had no way of knowing that I already asked Carlson about "Sakata" and Carlson had never heard of the guy. Mansor figured no one would question his word and no would could prove otherwise. To a large degree he was right...look at how many people still say, with all of the evidence presented and all of the lack of evidence to support him....."why would a red belt lie?". The answer of course is GREED. Greed knows no bounds and given the opportunity, greedy motherfuckers will take a crumb or the entire cake!!!!!
  8. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/15/2007 10:29am

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by robsonok4u
    What I was trying to say, maybe not too well, was that as a member of Rigan's association, if I found out that, in fact, Robson is a fraud and Rigan knew it or simply didn't want to take the time to care, I think I would feel compelled to leave the association and train somewhere else rather than be part of a lie. I'm asking if others like chingythingy feel the same way and if so how do they justify staying with the association if they don't believe Robson is for real.
    Way earlier in the thread this was discussed. Some of us think there is complicity (which I can see) some of us believe they were snowed (which I believe). Contrary to much protestation and chips on shoulders no one knows for sure.

    Robson, IMO, is full of ****. Notice this doesn't mean he can't roll. I don't do BJJ so I can't judge. Yet, all the changes and protestations, in his lineage, means he is FOS IMO.

    That being said I have my opinions about the big three but, as was stated earlier
    Quote Originally Posted by archlight
    I have personally seen people pull the wool over the eyes over guys like Jacare Cavalcanti with similar tactics to Robson to get a belt.
    This is why I will not indict the big three definitively.

    There is a lot of information but, not enough direct proof.

    I'm asking if others like chingythingy feel the same way and if so how do they justify staying with the association if they don't believe Robson is for real.
    Last edited by It is Fake; 5/15/2007 10:31am at .
  9. chingythingy is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/15/2007 11:01am


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by robsonok4u
    Ok chingythingy, help me out here. If you are also with a Rigan affiliate, aren't you being somewhat hypocritical coming on here and questioning the credentials of one of his representatives without first going to your instructor or Rigan himself and asking what their position is??? That was exactly my point, while I may be a newbie there are tons of guys in our association who are not and none of them seem to be raising a fuss. How do you explain that? Mind you, I'm not being smart or flip in asking this question, I really don't understand. To me its like being a Catholic who doesn't believe in Jesus. Either go on a search for the anwers and try to re-affirm your faith or, if you don't find the answers you're looking for, leave the church and find one which fits your thinking better. Do you get my point?
    Ummm, I train where I do because there's good jiu jitsu there, not because I need a new religion. My primary school is not directly under Rigan. I go roll with the guys from Rigan's school once in a while, and am friends with them. The instructor doesn't know Robson. The best way to talk to Rigan is face to face - he's not big on phone calls. He gets out here once a year or so, and I will ask him when I see him next. He is a super nice guy, so it's very possible someone fooled him or took advantage of mutual friends. Either way, I don't think it's going to hurt his organization any as time will expose things. I'll still train with his guys and go to his seminars even if he does have a crappy BB under him. He teaches some phenomenal ****. And there's a hell of a lot of his BB's that are **** hot too.

    If you think that's the extent of politics in BJJ here, you really haven't been around much.
  10. mmafan3450 is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/15/2007 11:09am


     Style: bjj

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    RP, I never said I believed the letter was actually a forgery. I simply asked if anyone verified it. People said it was, Great. I even said that I did NOT believe it was the way it actually happened. I even capitalized the word "NOT" so dumbasses like you would not start ranting about it being a forgery. I just wanted an answer as to whether or not it was verified. I was making the point that there are several ways it could have happened, some being Robson's fault and some being Mansor's. There are even ways that it could have been neither's fault. Which page did you post the original email on by the way?

    As far as your Greed theory. Come up with something better. You're an idiot. You're telling me that someone of Mansur's status risked his entire career for a few hundred dollars. No way. I am sure there is a much more logical explanation for how this happened, even if the answer is that he was decieved by others.

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