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  1. DuckofDeath is offline

    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    4/14/2007 2:31pm


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Red Elvis
    Why would Carlos Gacie Jr. also vouch for the guy and put his name on the line?
    My guess is that if Carlos Gracie, Jr. received a request from Grandmaster Mansor to sign off on a 3rd degree diploma that Mansor himself was signing off on, he would have no reason to suspect that anything was amiss. Why would the first thought that pops into Carlos Jr.'s head be "I've got a red belt grandmaster here requesting that I sign off on this diploma, but I'd better check out the promotee because he just might be some fake who's snookering the grandmaster."?
  2. DuckofDeath is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/14/2007 3:01pm


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Red Elvis
    Unfortunately however, I think DOD has already shot himself in the foot with regards to credibility by his previous actions over the last two years. Still, better late than never as some say.
    The problem was that I was naive enough to believe that if I kicked up a big enough ruckus and stirred up enough ****, it would attract enough attention to the situation that the scales would fall from everyone's eyes and they would all see the light and fix the problem. I was wrong. The problem goes a lot deeper than I ever imagined. So now it's time for a nice, long, steely-eyed, objective investigation whose object is to uncover any evidence that Mauricio Sakata ever existed anywhere other than in the mind of Robson Pereira. If in the coming years no such evidence can be adduced, people reading this thread can come to their own conclusions regarding the veracity of the letters signed by Santos, Machado, and Mansor and their motives for signing the letters.
  3. DuckofDeath is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/14/2007 5:47pm


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Red Elvis
    DOD - Robson mentions on his website that he has trained with Royler, Royce and BJ Penn. Perhaps these are leads you can pursue? I know Royce is very approachable.
    I honestly believe that this is just name dropping on Robson's part. He probably attended seminars given by these big names, after which he could claim that he had trained with them.
  4. DuckofDeath is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/14/2007 6:04pm


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by WaltJ
    Perhaps you can also uncover where, when, and from whom he received his Judo brown belt from, as well.

    I would like to know more about the history of the martial arts in Sao Paulo and find these types of things interesting.
    Here's something interesting: There was a Robson A. Pereira competing in judo in Sao Paulo in 2002 and 2003 (men's senior ligeiro class):

    http://www.fpj.com.br/resultados/res...3fase_2002.htm

    http://www.fpj.com.br/resultados/res...08-09-2003.htm
  5. WaltJ is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/14/2007 10:18pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    That is interesting, seeing as how it likely couldn't be him since he'd lived in the U.S. for over 5 years before that. I suppose he could've traveled back to the country to compete, though.
  6. GoldenJonas is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/14/2007 11:41pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Hmmm, good job DoD. The Sakata missing-link does appear to be the key.

    Your assumptions regarding the 2nd and 3rd degree promotions sound plausible. The baseline question then is the initial BB award.

    As an aside, the Renzo "re-ranking" matter I do not believe would be out of place in the BJJ community. A person going from one teacher to another is not automatically assumed by the new teacher to be "up to snuff" by the new teachers standards for that particular rank. For example (this is hearsay so take it for what it is worth), a number of BJJ fighters come to American Top Team with ranks awarded from non-affiliated instructors/schools. Advanced ranks like brown or black get run through the gauntlet by Laborio for weeks or months before being allowed to wear the rank they come in with, i.e., if they are not up to his standards for that particular rank he does not allow them to wear it.

    I look forward to reading more of your investigation. The Royler, Royce, or BJ Penn inquires could be interesting.
  7. duckII is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/16/2007 9:56am


     Style: bjj

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The BJ Penn thing is easy. As DoD is well aware, Robson was among the instructors at one of Rigan's camps held at Marco's facility and BJ Penn was there as well. Hence, he "trained" with him, got his picture with him and now has him on his web cite as a "credential".

    Of course, if that's all you need, I've trained w/ Severn, F.Shamrock, Rigan, Renzo, Royce and even Larry F'n Holmes!!!
  8. Red Sauce is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/16/2007 10:19am

    supporting member
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by DuckofDeath
    Here's something interesting: There was a Robson A. Pereira competing in judo in Sao Paulo in 2002 and 2003 (men's senior ligeiro class):

    http://www.fpj.com.br/resultados/res...3fase_2002.htm

    http://www.fpj.com.br/resultados/res...08-09-2003.htm

    Just adding to this: on this page:
    http://www.fpj.com.br/resultados/res...08-04-2004.htm

    The guy is down as ROBSON ALEXANDER PEREIRA not Robson Aguino Pereira as our Robson is down on the Certificate. So I would say a different person.

    And from my googling both Robson and Pereira are very common names in Brazil from what it seems, so I would be betting the Judo guy from the above links is a diff guy.
    Last edited by Red Sauce; 4/16/2007 10:22am at .
  9. duckII is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/16/2007 10:45am


     Style: bjj

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    For what its worth, I have now, through a mutual friend, had three separate conversations with a representative of Rat Pack, Robson's old school, and while he has repeatedly refused to speak about Robson himself, either good or bad (citing "professional courtesy" and choosing instead to simply ask "Robson who?") he has been quite polite, approachable and very receptive to my questions on the history of this issue.

    Unfortunately, he is unable to shed much light on the subject as it would appear they know and knew no more than the rest of us with regard to the mysterious Sakata.

    In short, he has confirmed the following:

    1) The initial Rickson reference on the website came from Robson who, as far as I can discern, backed off on that story when challanged and indicated a lineage under Sakata;

    2) The letters are "legit" to the extent that they were signed and presented by the authors;

    3) They had and have no additional or independent information either confirming or refuting the info in the letters other than the word of Robson and the authors;

    4) They had and have no additional or independent information regarding Sakata (pro or con) other than what Robson told them and what is written in the letters;

    5) They have/had no information regarding an alleged brown belt in judo;

    6) They have/had no information regarding a State Championship and/or Brazilian Nationals title;

    7) Upon Robson's departure, they severed all ties with Rigan, Marcos and Mansor but continue to speak very respectfully regarding all three;

    8) Following his departure from Rat Pack, Robson was awarded his 3rd degree by Mansor and has apparently been appointed the Rigan Machado representative for the Poconos and surrounding area.

    I honestly believe that this is all these guys knew or know about the Sakata issue and that by the time they realized the mess they were in with Robson, it was too late to prevent the fire storm that followed.

    Also, the Rat Pack rep asked that, if I was going to post any part of our conversation, that I clarify that their "only goal at this point is to continue to re-build their school, under their new director, and to continue to distance themselves from the whole Robson saga."
  10. DuckofDeath is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/16/2007 12:54pm


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by GoldenJonas
    As an aside, the Renzo "re-ranking" matter I do not believe would be out of place in the BJJ community. A person going from one teacher to another is not automatically assumed by the new teacher to be "up to snuff" by the new teachers standards for that particular rank. For example (this is hearsay so take it for what it is worth), a number of BJJ fighters come to American Top Team with ranks awarded from non-affiliated instructors/schools. Advanced ranks like brown or black get run through the gauntlet by Laborio for weeks or months before being allowed to wear the rank they come in with, i.e., if they are not up to his standards for that particular rank he does not allow them to wear it.
    A very relevant observation. If Robson actually had to work to get to BB level, it might have taken a while before he could get his second degree and be able to hand out rank. Better to go shopping for rank and find someone who would "recognize" the Sakata belt supposedly awarded before Robson's debilitating injury and who would then retroactively award a second degree on the basis of the "original" Sakata belt.
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