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  1. duckII is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/02/2009 1:48pm


     Style: bjj

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I can assure you War Wheel, based upon what I've seen and learned from both the threads and my conversations with those who were close to the situation @ the time it first surfaced, there is no "misunderstanding".

    Rather, somewhat akin to papal infalibility on matters of faith for the Catholics, Marcos, Rigan and Mansor never thought anyone would question their word on matters of bjj.

    To me, an investigation exposing the ugly and unspokjen political underbelly of bjj is far more intriguing a than a continuing pounding of Robson Pereira.

    Extending the analogy which surfaced earlier in this and/or other threads, I am reminded of another great line in "All thePresident's Men" where deepthroat asks Woodward, in speaking of the democratic sabotage campaign during the '72 election (I'm paraphrasing), "You really don't believe all of this was the work of little Don Sigretti?"

    My question would be, "You really don't believe all of this is the work of little Robson Pereira?"

    Fry the bigger fish and I can assure you that I, and I assume many others, will be a captive audience!
  2. Matt Phillips is offline
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    NOTE TO SELF - MOAR GRAPPLE - GET A NORMAL HAIR CUT - REPEAT

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    Posted On:
    10/02/2009 2:10pm

    supporting member
     Style: Submission Grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by duckII View Post
    I can assure you War Wheel, based upon what I've seen and learned from both the threads and my conversations with those who were close to the situation @ the time it first surfaced, there is no "misunderstanding".

    Rather, somewhat akin to papal infalibility on matters of faith for the Catholics, Marcos, Rigan and Mansor never thought anyone would question their word on matters of bjj.

    To me, an investigation exposing the ugly and unspokjen political underbelly of bjj is far more intriguing a than a continuing pounding of Robson Pereira.

    Extending the analogy which surfaced earlier in this and/or other threads, I am reminded of another great line in "All thePresident's Men" where deepthroat asks Woodward, in speaking of the democratic sabotage campaign during the '72 election (I'm paraphrasing), "You really don't believe all of this was the work of little Don Sigretti?"

    My question would be, "You really don't believe all of this is the work of little Robson Pereira?"

    Fry the bigger fish and I can assure you that I, and I assume many others, will be a captive audience!
    Hey, I'm not saying it actually IS a misunderstanding, just that there is something unsavory about hoping the fraud angle pans out. I would rather there were no frauds.

    I'm still getting upto speed on this, but if what you are claim actually turns out to be the case, or even likely, I will certainly help to fry those fish.
    Now darkness comes; you don't know if the whales are coming. - Royce Gracie


    KosherKickboxer has t3h r34l chi sao

    In De Janerio, in blackest night,
    Luta Livre flees the fight,
    Behold Maeda's sacred tights;
    Beware my power... Blue Lantern's light!
  3. M.C. is offline
    M.C.'s Avatar

    This is all I do: girls, photography and BJJ...

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    Posted On:
    10/02/2009 2:55pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: KeyboardHero/CameraJutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Okay, people, hold your horses. I am slightly getting better and will be at training on Monday (though I will very likely not train yet). I will ask questions hopefully to Raul and his teacher (if I only know the name, freaking everybody just calls him Professor, I do know though he is a faixa coral and in the game for over 40 years). I will take pictures of the certs of Raul and I think there is one of his wife as well.
    Right now I am completing a list of questions to ask, this is what I came up with so far: (I am still working through this thread, fucking long read but with little signal to noise ratio)

    1) Do you know of any Mauricio (Maurice) Sakata?
    2) Do you know of any Robson Pereira? (Trained in Sao Paulo somewhere around 1985 to 1995, supposedly a Brazilian Champ, held in Rio de Janeiro, and a Sao Paulo state champ, likely held in Sao Paulo)

    Sideline questions:
    Your name/rank position within the cbjje or bjj community in Sao Paulo for the record

    am I missing anything so far?
    Sometimes you lose and sometimes the other guy wins.

    At this point I don't owe anybody an explenation.

    Schools I trained at:
    Lotus Club Cetepe Liberdade Sao Paulo
    Renzo Gracie NYC
    New York Combat Sambo
  4. DuckofDeath is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/02/2009 5:52pm


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by M.C. View Post
    1) Do you know of any Mauricio (Maurice) Sakata?
    2) Do you know of any Robson Pereira? (Trained in Sao Paulo somewhere around 1985 to 1995, supposedly a Brazilian Champ, held in Rio de Janeiro, and a Sao Paulo state champ, likely held in Sao Paulo)

    am I missing anything so far?
    Thanks for being "our man in Sao Paulo." Be advised that Helio Soneca Moreira related that as a blue or purple he trained with someone named Maurice Sakata who was a purple or brown at the time; Soneca didn't know if that person ever made black belt, though. So although there might actually be a Maurice Sakata who did BJJ out there somewhere, the question is whether he was ever promoted to black belt and in turn promoted Robson Pereira to black belt. He might simply be some suitably obscure figure whose name Robson Pereira decided to pick out of the hat.

    Also be advised that there might be a legitmate judo black belt in Sao Paulo named Robson Pereira, who might unwittingly be confused with fake BJJ black belt Robson Pereira.
  5. DuckofDeath is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/03/2009 1:04pm


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by duckII View Post
    Fry the bigger fish and I can assure you that I, and I assume many others, will be a captive audience!
    I'm going to fry up a minnow as an appetizer.

    This is Kevin Wind, Sr., one of Mansor's students who headed one of Mansor's "Kioto Jiu-Jitsu" BJJ schools on Long Island; he now heads a school in Florida.



    One of my little helpers alerted Wind to the controversy surrounding Grandmaster Mansor's letter which stated that Robson Pereira got his black belt from Maurice Sakata, that the Grandmaster knew who Sakata was, and that Sakata got his black belt from Carlson Sr. This helpful alert was sent so that in the event the letter posted on the RPFS was a forgery, the Grandmaster would have the opportunity to repudiate it.

    Here's the reply my little helper received from Wind:

    Re: Grand Master Letter on Rat Pack Site
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    From: KIOTOKEV@aol.com
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    To:xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
    Sent: Fri, Mar 24, 2006 11:28 AM
    Malcolm,
    Thank you for your concern and the heads up! The person who is trying to dispute Robson's lineage obviously has a problem. The Grand Master does know Mauricio and he is a legitimate black belt under Master Carlson. The lineage is shown on the BJJ.org website. The name is misspelled on the website which is not the fault of Robson it is the fault of the person who put the info on the site so they should perhaps contact him webmaster@bjj.org.
    The Grand Master received a letter from this person questioning Robson's lineage and neglected to sign his name, preferring to remain anonymous which Master Mansor noted was a sign of dishonor, cowardice! If a person is to challenge another martial artist's credentials at least be a man and identify yourself! Master Mansor must have misunderstood the phone call in question, but he does know Mauricio Sakata!
    The person should go and visit Robson and see for himself if he really is a black belt or not, which seems to be the real question here! Martial arts used to have Honor and Respect among its practitioners, however now a days those words seem to have lost their place in the arts, its a shame.
    I received a copy of the letter from this "BJJ watchdog" and have spoken with Grand Master Mansor about it, that is why I can tell you his thoughts on this matter. Personally I don't have the time or desire to go to website forums, where people can express their opinions on anything they want and basically bs about anything as if they were an expert....Thanks again Malcolm! ....... Kevin


    So here we have one of Mansor's students stating that Sakata got his black belt from Carlson and that the student himself had confirmed this with the Grandmaster.

    I'll bet the Grandmaster is really going to be happy that Kevin went to bat for him like this. Fry, little minnow!
    Last edited by DuckofDeath; 10/03/2009 1:12pm at .
  6. DuckofDeath is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/04/2009 12:39pm


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Some of you might be wondering about this passage in Wind's email:

    The lineage [of Maurice Sakata] is shown on the BJJ.org website. The name is misspelled on the website which is not the fault of Robson it is the fault of the person who put the info on the site so they should perhaps contact him webmaster@bjj.org.

    The only listing on the now defunct BJJ.org website that resembled a Maurice Sakata who was a black belt under Carlson Sr. was a listing for a Mario Sucata who was listed as a black belt under Carlson Sr. But it so happens that there actually is a black belt out there named Mario Sucata (Mario "Sucata" Neto) in Carlson Sr.'s lineage. The only error in the BBJ.org listing was that Mario Sucata was listed as a black belt directly under Carlson Sr. when in fact he was a black belt under one of Carlson Sr.'s black belts named Gutemberg Mello.

    So Maurice Sakata's lineage was listed on BJJ.org but the webmaster misspelled his name and that's not Robson's fault. Now that's a good one. And this lie coming from the likes of Kevin Wind who spouts off about Honor and Respect in martial arts. Another Grandmster Mansor in the making...
  7. DuckofDeath is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/04/2009 12:57pm


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    When my little helper helpfully emailed Wind back with the information that the BJJ.org listing for Mario Sucata couldn't be a misspelling of Maurice Sakata because there really was a Mario Sucata, here's the reply he received:

    Re: Grand Master Letter on Rat Pack Site
    Back to Messages
    From: KIOTOKEV@aol.com
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    To:xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
    Sent: Mon, Mar 27, 2006 10:04 AM
    Malcolm,
    What is your problem? So there is a Mario Sukata, so What! This "Dick of death" has some sort of problem with Robson, that's their problem! If Marcos Santos, Rigan Machado, and a Grand Master take the time to write letters confirming whatever, that's good enough for me and usually for anyone else who is involved with brazilian jiu jitsu. I refuse to waste anymore of my time with this bullshit with a few people who obviously doubt and publicly renounce the word of these upstanding and highly honorable people in their art! Pursueing this matter despite the word of these men proves the lack of respect that you and others have for these men and the art of Brazilian Jiu Jitsu.


    Note that he confirms the existence of letters by Marcos Santos, Rigan Machado, and the Grandmaster, stating in essence that their word is good enough for him.
  8. mmafan3450 is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/04/2009 7:06pm


     Style: bjj

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Here's another twist... which unfortunately will make him alot harder to track. Robson's real name may not be Robson Pereira. I have heard this from a couple sources. There is a story that he set fire to a building in Brazil to collect insurance money, got caught and fled to America. He also told me that he once accidentally killed someone over there via chokehold. Both of these would be reasons for him to have changed his name. There is another source on here that also has heard that's not his real name. Whether he has any more info, I don't know.
  9. M.C. is offline
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    This is all I do: girls, photography and BJJ...

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    Posted On:
    10/05/2009 8:15pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: KeyboardHero/CameraJutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I went to Lotus CETEPE Sao Paulo today, trying to talk to Raul and the Professor.

    Raul said he never heard of Mauricio (Maurice) Sakata or Robsen Pereira (I showed him the names spelled, he thought about Sukata but then I showed him the names I wrote down and he said no). I showed him the picture of Mr. Pereira and he didn't know him.

    So why is Raul a good source? He got his BB in 1995, which is the time at which RP got his BB allegedly. He is a legit 4th degree BB. He actually is a Sao Paulo state champ (7 time State Champ in several belt categories) He is a real BB Brazilian Champion, he won the Pan Ams. He won the Worlds in the BB absolute Masters division.
    In addition he currently has the position of President of the FESP (Federação do Estado de São Paulo de Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu). Thus he has a good knowledge of the Schools/teachers in Sao Paulo.

    Unfortunately I could only talk to Raul about the issue since the Professor will train tomorrow but I will be hard pressed to be there, have a test at university and thus will have likely no time to go, I try again later the week.

    Raul though said that not all schools are registered under the FESP and he gave me the email/webadress/phone number of a different Organization, which I will try to contact in the next couple of days and ask. (I will have a few problems, because my Portuguese is not that good and I guess this will be even worse over the Phone).
    He said he does not know all people who are from SP and have a BB but he said it is unlikely that there is a SP state champ and Brazilian champ he does not know.
    He also suggested that the guy might be a JJJ BB who cashes in on BJJ.

    I will add the Pictures of a few of Rauls Certs as attachments if you want the full size uncut docs, please PM me. And I would love if somebody could upload them to BS, I can't for what ever reason.

    Sometimes you lose and sometimes the other guy wins.

    At this point I don't owe anybody an explenation.

    Schools I trained at:
    Lotus Club Cetepe Liberdade Sao Paulo
    Renzo Gracie NYC
    New York Combat Sambo
  10. M.C. is offline
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    This is all I do: girls, photography and BJJ...

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    Posted On:
    10/07/2009 10:11am

    Join us... or die
     Style: KeyboardHero/CameraJutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Hopefully it will upload the pictures to BS now...I will take the originals from my website so everything is here on BS available for everybody.

    PS: I try to call the other organization (http://www.fpjj.com.br/ Federação Paulista de Jiu-Jitsu) today, just have to figure out how I will record it...
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    Sometimes you lose and sometimes the other guy wins.

    At this point I don't owe anybody an explenation.

    Schools I trained at:
    Lotus Club Cetepe Liberdade Sao Paulo
    Renzo Gracie NYC
    New York Combat Sambo

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