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  1. DDale is offline

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    Sep 2006
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    171

    Posted On:
    4/12/2007 6:12am


     Style: Sub Westling, MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    How to deal with Strong and Fit newbs who just "Lock Down"?

    So we have a new guy who is strong and very fit from other activities. At the moment Im having real trouble controlling him on the ground he basically aggressively powers out of anything that gets put on him (not that I blame him). Hes very hard to make relax. If I ever get into a dominant position he just locks up completely. If he manages to get on top he just "locks down" and stays where ihe is, which is kinda boring. He also seems to be impossible to make gas at all.

    Any tips for controlling or manuvering around guys like this?
  2. Bang! is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/12/2007 6:49am

    supporting memberBullshido Newbie
     Style: Wu Style TCC + BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Guys like that are boring as hell. If there ever was a time (and you'll have plenty of it) to think about using one move -- and it's subsequent reaction -- to set up another, this is it.
  3. M1K3 is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/12/2007 7:18am


     Style: submission grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by DDale
    So we have a new guy who is strong and very fit from other activities. At the moment Im having real trouble controlling him on the ground he basically aggressively powers out of anything that gets put on him (not that I blame him). Hes very hard to make relax. If I ever get into a dominant position he just locks up completely. If he manages to get on top he just "locks down" and stays where ihe is, which is kinda boring. He also seems to be impossible to make gas at all.

    Any tips for controlling or manuvering around guys like this?
    Try working with him. What I mean is when he goes into lock down relax and then say to him "There is a really cool sub you can do from here", then show him and let him pull it off a few times, once he is comfortable with it show him the counter. Switch positions and work through the same series with him countering you. Since he dosn't know much, he is going with what he knows, especially since it seems to work.

    BTW, if your having trouble now, wait until his skills improve. :icon_cat:
  4. Nickeroon1987 is offline

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    Dec 2006
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    Posted On:
    4/12/2007 10:15am


     Style: Goju-Ryu, BJJ, MT

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    This reminds me of my days as a white belt. All the other white belts outweighed me by about 20 pounds and were usually a good deal stronger than myself, so I spent whole rounds in side mount by a guy who couldn't pull of ****, but didn't want to "lose" by having me escape the damn pin. Just teach him some submissions and capitalize on the openings he will no doubt create when he goes for them.
  5. fanatical is offline
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    Hi, guys

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    Oslo, Norway
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    Posted On:
    4/12/2007 12:16pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Options:

    #1: Do nothing. Lie there like a sack of meat until he decides that humping a dead person isn't that much fun after all and decides to either attempt some form of submission or do something else.

    #2: Bait him
    #2a: Bait him an easy submission and capitalize on it.
    #2b: Bait him an easy submission and tap and start over for a new chance to actually train.
    #2c: Bait him an easy escape and capitalize on it.
    #2d: Bait him an easy escape and give it to him, now you can work something else.

    #3: Talk and say something like "hey.. you okay there buddy? you seem a little tense. Just remember to relax and breathe :) smiley face "

    #4: Use your jiu-jitsu and feel what it's like to have to moderate yourself and exploit small opportunities as they arise when a larger stronger opponent crushes you. This is my life in jiu-jitsu so it seems only reasonable that other people are able to experience it as well.

    #5 Quit jiu-jitsu.
    More human than human is our motto.
  6. Ryno is offline

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    Seattle (Ballard), WA
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    Posted On:
    4/12/2007 12:18pm


     Style: FMA, Jujutsu/Judo/SAMBO

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Going along with what Villain and others are saying, with guys like this, it is an excellent time to experiment. If he's on top and has you in a good hold down, pick a couple of escapes and just work the hell out of them. Play with different setups, etc.

    If he's on bottom or in your guard, work on your combination attacks. Generally if someone powers out of one thing, they are leaving themselves vulnerable to something else. If he's pushing out of triangles, transition to arm bars. If hes yanking back out of arm bars, work some sweeps. If he drives in and lays on you to avoid the sweeps, work some collar chokes or kimuras.

    With guys like this, you absolutely have to keep them guessing. If you are one-dimensional in your attacks, he can use simple cave man defenses. You need to outsmart simple cavemen. (Plz don't repeat this to the Geico guys.)
  7. M1K3 is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/12/2007 2:25pm


     Style: submission grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by The Villain
    I'd also like to point out that I'm a blue belt and don't feel the need to go flying around on top. Its not just a noob thing. I get up there and slowly apply a basic neck crank that doesn't require me to move much at all. If it doesn't work, I spread out to "cook" the opponent a bit more and then try again. Then I cook some more. I'd really rather keep my position than sub someone, since as the guy on top, I have all the time in the world. MMA, I'm beating you down, BJJ I'm up on points, on the street I'm restraining your ass. Whatever scenario we're looking at, YOU need to move, not me.
    Excellent post!
  8. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/12/2007 2:40pm

    supporting member
     Style: creonte on hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by The Villain
    I'd also like to point out that I'm a blue belt and don't feel the need to go flying around on top. Its not just a noob thing. I get up there and slowly apply a basic neck crank that doesn't require me to move much at all. If it doesn't work, I spread out to "cook" the opponent a bit more and then try again. Then I cook some more. I'd really rather keep my position than sub someone, since as the guy on top, I have all the time in the world. MMA, I'm beating you down, BJJ I'm up on points, on the street I'm restraining your ass. Whatever scenario we're looking at, YOU need to move, not me.
    Wow, just wow. Never saw it like that until now. Many thanks for this post!
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

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    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
  9. cyrijl is offline
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    Light Heavyweight

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    Posted On:
    4/12/2007 2:47pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ, MT, Yoga

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    yeah, but it sux to be muscled. Last night in judo we had a guy come in from a local jujitsu club. He was about 5 or 6 inches taller than me. He basically just muscled moves all night. I would sweep him and he'd just toss me around (and I am not a little guy). He would rough house, neck crank. I eventually just played that game too. We tied one tap a piece and i just kept him at bay until the bell rang. I hate to waste my time like that. I don't mind going hard, I do mind being in an all out brawl without knowing it
    There is no cheating, there is only jiu-jitsu.
  10. Ryno is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/12/2007 3:00pm


     Style: FMA, Jujutsu/Judo/SAMBO

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I can live with muscling. It's not as bad as rolling with a big fat guy. A few months back a massive dude comes in, probably 6', 350. We're doing some newaza, and I tip him and take a very clean side control (kesa), but the dude was so round, he just kep rolling with me attached to him and reversed it on me. Keep in mind that I'm 230 lbs.

    To be honest, I don't even think that he intentionally did the move, it was just that I tipped him so fast and his momentum wasn't stopped. And being completely round, his momentum would just keep going and going.

    Then I really had to work an escape as he just camped out in side control. Really, that just wasn't fair, but I did learn not to cling to a fat person as they fall.
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