8/20/2003 9:45pm, #1
I found a place that rents out the K1 tv events, and I've found them a lot more interesting than profession boxing. Flying knee attacks and a lot of unintentional knees to the groin that interrupts the bouts. So much for the myth that groin strikes don't affect fighters.
One bout I found especially entertaining, there was a K1 bout between a Japanese fighter and a Brazilian giant. The Brazilian giant finally knocked the Japanese fighter down and got into the mount position raining blows down on the Japanese fighter. Only problem is, that wasn't a Pride match, so it was illegal. The ref jumps in and attempted to push the Brazilian away, but because the fighter was so big, he shoved the ref away and got back on the mount position and began raining punches down on the unconscious Japanese fighter.
As soon as this happened, ring security jumped in and tackled the Brazilian as the rest of the staff piled in. They panned the camera to Bob Sapp who was sitting at ringside with a, "Holy Crap" look on his face. The Brazilian was huge and on top of that, he was going berserk, prompting Bob Sapp to enter the ring to lend any assistance to control the situation. Bob Sapp and others had to actually pin the Brazilian against the ropes until his rage subsided. All and all a great match. <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
Does anybody know what happened to that Brazilian fighter, is he still permitted to fight in the K1 venue? Scary dude. He apparently doesn't give a spit about the rules.
Edited by - kungfoolss on August 20 2003 22:09:45Kungfoolss, Scourge of the theory-based stylists, Most Feared man at Bullshido.com, and the Preeminent Force in the martial arts political arena
8/20/2003 10:02pm, #2
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That guy is Montana Silva, I believe he was a former pro-wrestler trying to break into the K-1. The man is destined to fight MMA/NHB, so he should screw K-1 and fight in MMA events like Pride or UFC. Fortunately, it looks like the Japanese promoters have plan for him to appear in Pride MMA soon. Too bad that the guy seems to be training with Bob Sapp or they would make a monster battle of the century.
8/22/2003 3:15pm, #3
if you can't beat them.....
i think we posted some links of the monster before, fucking insane
Hard Work, Patience, Dedication
Fighting Multiples - http://bullshido.com/article_read.asp?id=162
8/22/2003 7:32pm, #4
Is this the 7 foot dude?
And is anyone else confused by The Foolss sudden appreciation for mixed martial arts?
8/22/2003 10:12pm, #5
No. He's actually said quite a few things that indicated his limited approval of what they do. As far as I can tell, Kungfoolss biggest target is the silk and slippers gang.
"Information is not knowledge; knowledge is not wisdom; wisdom is not truth; truth is not beauty; beauty is not love; love...is not music. Music...is the best."Normally, I'd say I was grappling, but I was taking down and mounting people, and JFS has kindly informed us that takedowns and being mounted are neither grappling nor anti grappling, so I'm not sure what the **** I was doing. Maybe schroedinger's sparring, where it's neither grappling nor anti-grappling until somoene observes it and collapses the waveform, and then I RNC a cat to death.----fatherdog
8/23/2003 8:52pm, #6
Hard Work, Patience, Dedication
Fighting Multiples - http://bullshido.com/article_read.asp?id=162
8/24/2003 1:44am, #7No. He's actually said quite a few things that indicated his limited approval of what they do. As far as I can tell, Kungfoolss biggest target is the silk and slippers gang.
Variables such as these occur continuously, it is a cycle of life. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, and in combat losing often means you pay the ultimate price as this officer had; as did Alex Gong. Stylists and reality-based fighters never train for these eventualities, they make think they do, but most simply have no clue. No, they are mired in a pedagogical dogma of lies; chi, ritualistic dance routines (a.k.a. katas), an all encompassing defensive structure both psychological and physical and so forth. These lies, govern your responses, some call them "survival" instincts, sadly, they do not realize that these instincts many fighters covet, could result in death. Now, I won't go into a lengthy dissertation here but sufficed to say, the mind is instinctively defensive. Self-preservation. Not necessarily a bad thing, but it could be a detriment when your life is on the line.
Let us take the grapplers "shoot" as an example, whenever a "standup fighter" is in the process of being taken to the ground, most will fight it. Instinctively, they know they will be helpless on the ground so they resist fiercely creating Structure. This is a defensive response, again, entirely natural. However, with structure, you have now made the job of the grappler easier, the exact opposite affect the resisting fighter had in mind. Consider if you will jelly, jelly is formless and without much structure, but if you freeze jelly giving it a bit of structural strength, what happens? You can pick it up, squeeze it, and throw it, whatever you want to do with it. This is basically the same thing that happens with a grapplers shoot. Your very act of resistance creates the structure necessary for the grappler to manipulate you. You have in essence increased his power for a more forceful slam and takedown, thereby increasing the damage you will absorb. And out on the street, such an impact with the pavement will hurt you severely and may incapaciate or even kill you. Something about having your cranium bounce off the sidewalk tends to result in a mild concussion or worse.
Once a man has a hold of you, you never, ever resist that man. You resist a man that has a hold of you, you create structure that only serves to aid your attacker. I don't care what it is, a grapplers shoot, a chin-na lock, or a hand wrapped around your neck with his other hand holding a gun to your head. You never resist anyone, relaxation and rotation will get you out of almost every one of these holds at the key moment. Now, obviously, I cannot go into the details here without going into a litany of equations necessary to addressing the complexity of variables involved with just the firearm/hostage situation alone, nobody can. Simply put, you never struggle, that is a natural impulse to being grabbed. I can hear the critics now, "Yah, but that's what we do in our art already, when somebody grabs our wrist, we relax, rotate and escape or retaliate. Big deal." My response to them is, great you understand the fundamentals then, but why aren't you doing this when you're being grappled about the hips and being shoved backwards? Instead, you say something asinine like, "Well, that's why you have to learn how to grapple if you're taken down."
HUH? Come again?
That's akin to saying, if someone grabs my wrist, I'm going to grab their wrists instead of doing the right thing of relaxing and rotating. You're just playing right into their game, in the grapplers world, he wants the grappling game and you're giving exactly what he wants and what he's good at. This is very stupid. The likelihood you're going to win against an opponent that spends a grueling 6-hours a week grappling versus your 30-minutes a week worth of self-defense tricks intended to counter grapplers are not good. Why play their game? A grappler is certainly not there to play yours, then why reciprocate? Do you now see the problem with the methodology of most martial artists, lack of compounding sciences, specifically principles, a flaw methodology and general ignorance.
Incidentally, if there's anybody out there that says they know all there is to know concerning firearm disarmament because they watched a SICS tape or went through a SICS or TFT training camps is an unadulterated Liar, I'll tell you that right now. I've been doing this a long time now, I expand my knowledge on a weekly basis, and I'll be the first to admit, I don't know everything there is to know about fire disarmament, but compared to the most "highly trained" stylist and even a SCARS or TFT practitioner it is extensive. There is virtually no limit to its mathematical application.
Getting back to the matter at hand, I mentioned something recently in a previous thread, I will do so here again. A couple years back, I asked the TFT Founder, Tim Larkin (then still a former SICS Master Trainer), a trainer of hundreds of civilians and Special Operations personnel, how he would handle a SICS movement with a few variables thrown into the mix; i.e., dealing with the arm wrapped around the neck with the firearm resting against your temple. Because he is an honest man, Mr. Larkin explained the movement shown in the SICS curriculum got him shot 2 out of 3 times in the attempt to extricate himself. Now, you could say, well, maybe cause the wrong sciences were being applied. Perhaps, but why was it neglected from the curriculum seeing how it is the most common approach by an attacker in hostage situation crisis? I wondered this myself for years, why did SICS not address it? The answer did not hit me until after conducting my own research and expansion on the sciences. The 'complexity of the variables' involved. This is exactly why I presented the variables in such a manner to Mr. Larkin, I knew the result, and given the man's expertise, I needed the confirmation.
Now, before you egotistical little stylists start saying you could have figured it out, trust me, it's never as simple as it seems. If anything, this little event is just to prove to you how extremely complex things can be especially when a Tier 1 combat Instructor, one of the very best in the business was stumped by things they failed to address. How complex can topics get? I spent a couple pages with my Inner Circle describing a sequence of movements involving a fire disarmament procedure (something a stylist would ignorantly refer to as a 'technique'). Just how many movements were involved you ask that took so much explanation?
Two movements and it took a couple pages to explain the most rudimentary sciences involved with this particular firearm disarmament. Keep in mind, these are people that have gone through the SICS and TFT training courses, and yet, they were not cognizant of these fundamental sciences. Why? Basically, the material was never covered at either Institution of learning. Did it mean they were never there or that I somehow "invented" them. Absolutely not. Because a curriculum chooses to omit them or did not address it out of negligence, it does not mean the sciences do not exist. The answers are always present, the steps you take to go about uncovering them is ultimately up to you.
While science does not have all the answers, that is exactly its purpose of existence, a continuous search for the answers and disproving or affirming long held beliefs, partaking in extensive and painstaking research neither of which the martial arts are inclined and less likely to perform.
Edited by - kungfoolss on August 24 2003 02:08:06Kungfoolss, Scourge of the theory-based stylists, Most Feared man at Bullshido.com, and the Preeminent Force in the martial arts political arena
8/24/2003 2:13am, #8
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- angola, ny
- Liu Seong Gung Fu
excellent post, KungFoolss.
8/24/2003 2:57am, #9
Seconded Kuntaokid. Great post KFS.
It made me think of how effective a basic sprawl is against the shoot, for exactly the reasons you suggested.
8/24/2003 4:12am, #10
"Instinctively, they know they will be helpless on the ground so they resist fiercely creating Structure... ...However, with structure, you have now made the job of the grappler easier, the exact opposite affect the resisting fighter had in mind."
I dont know about that one??? (Maybe I missed your point.) But if someone were to lets say started to choke you to death wouldnt resistance be the wise thing to do???
Just like if two guys jump you wouldnt resistance be the thing to do??
"Let us take the grapplers "shoot" as an example, whenever a "standup fighter" is in the process of being taken to the ground, most will fight it."
Isnt most wrestlers 'stand up' fighters to begin with?
"That's akin to saying, if someone grabs my wrist, I'm going to grab their wrists instead of doing the right thing of relaxing and rotating. You're just playing right into their game, in the grapplers world, he wants the grappling game and you're giving exactly what he wants and what he's good at. This is very stupid."
I think your persuming that a stand up fighter doesnt know grappling or isnt into mixed martial arts already? You need to define what a grappler is. Would this mean wing chun pratitioners are considered graplers? Because they do do alot of grappling like moves. How about Japanese jujitsu, or hapkido or other arts?????
From what I have seen most grapplers dont prefer to go on the ground (with the exceptions of a few arts like Greco Roman etc). Its mainly BJJ guys and Judo guys that are willing to take the fight to the ground.Ghost of Charles Dickens