The point of the threads gone out of the window and been replaced by a comedy sketch. There's obviously some problems with the club, but they arn't going to be solved by two ex-students having a go at each other on a thread.
Name wise, I looked online briefly today and the closest i could find to anything related to 'Flowing' was:
lào, which means 'flooded'
And Chi seems to mean Air, but this seems to have been Westernised into 'energy'..
Has anyone emailed the club and asked what Lao Chi means?
Last edited by JonnyTurn; 4/01/2008 6:54am at .
Hello, I do not know much about Martial Arts, nor have I had experience in this particular style. But I am studying for my PHD in Cantonese and Mandarin with Classical Civilisation, all I do know is that Lao Chi, in the old dialect at least, is roughly translated as Spirit Flowing, or the flowing spirit. Of course, it is a degenerative language, and today it means almost nothing. I am only a beginner in Kung Fu myself, Shaolin more specifically, but I believe that its not the martial art, its the martial artist. So long as it works I don't think it makes much difference how pure the system is. I have no authority on this though of course, linguistics is my field, this is my opinion only.
Last edited by Tanidoe; 8/09/2008 8:49am at .
Tanidoe... interesting. All of the Chinese people I asked about it while I lived and studied in China (for 2 years) said it was nonsense.
What "old dialect" are you referring to? Romanized transliteration wasn't around during the times of these "old dialects".
How can you possibly know what the transliteration "Lao Chi" means in this "old dialect" without Chinese Characters as a point of reference? Did you look at the (awful) calligraphy on the guys site? I did a translation several posts back. It doesn't add up. Nothing on the site comes anywhere close to a transliteration of "Lao Chi" in Mandarin or Cantonese.
Furthermore, the "art" does matter if he is using it to take advantage of students. Shrouding oneself in "traditions", cryptic ancient slogans and a lot of ritual (especially bullshit tradition, slogans, and ritual ) is how charlatans with nothing valuable to offer make a buck in the martial arts world. People are dazzled and drawn in by the mystery and the cultural trinkets, and they throw their money away. This site is a place to discuss and hopefully stop that.
This thread should die unless someone from the school can provide a response.
No one who hasn't studied linguistics in a fair amount of depth would be able to derive it, whether studying in China or not, it has no meaning in the traditional hanzi. But, your friends may be more qualified to comment than myself, I myself am not Chinese. The old dialect I make reference to in my previous post is Zhuànshū developed in the Zhou Dynasty under Qin Shihuangdi, you can find the translation that I used in Zhongguo Caoshu da Zidian, by Li Zhixian, I believe it's available on amazon. Failing that, "Chinese Characters Then and Now By Gong Qi, Jerry Norman, Qi Huang, Helen Wang, Wang Tao" is very easy to get your hands on, and there is even a Hisai emblem with the words Lao Chi on it.
I visited the site today and the calligraphy is far from accurate, or even sensical for that matter, I have no wish to defend the company or the style, I was just responding to the debate about the words themselves. Although, even though I find the translation to be satisfactory, it is very obscure and its hard to see why Zhuànshū is even being used as it has no connection to Shaolin. I suspect he has stumbled upon the term by accident, but his intentions are not my concern.
As for my comment about the style, perhaps I spoke out of turn but I made no claim to have any kind of authority in that particular field, I am only a beginner and I did admit I know almost nothing about martial arts, at least not in any practical sense. I was only repeating the words of a greater man on the subject.
"No one who hasn't studied linguistics in a fair amount of depth" would be capable of such atrocious sentence structure.
Originally Posted by Tanidoe
Zhuanshu is a style of calligraphy, not a dialect. A dialect is a particular style of language specific to a certain region or social class. Don't pay for that mail order PHD in linguistics just yet.
Originally Posted by Tanidoe
Otherwise, that is an interesting post. It would be more interesting if your credentials as a linguist weren't questionable at best.
I would be interested to see the Zhuanshu version of "Lao Chi", as I was never able to find any characters, from any style of script that represent this romanization.
I also looked under the transliteration "Lao Qi", which is a more likely candidate using Mandarin pronunciation.
Could you post the modern hanzi version of the Zhuanshu characters you refer to? If they exist in Zhanshu in such notoriety that they are worthy of mention in modern academic texts, they will still exist today, even if modified. While they may have no meaning in modern Chinese, it would allow me a point of reference to search my own Zhuanshu dictionary.
So, Tanidoe, when did you stop training Lao Chi?
I know you said you didn't but, you are defending the translation a little to vehemently.
My thoughts exactly. The fact that he appeared out of nowhere and in his second post knows of a page in a book where you can find a picture of a Zhou dynasty seal with the words "Laochi" underneath seems highly coincidental...
The thought "school owner trying for third party verification" even flashed through my mind when I saw that, but I was going to wait and see where he went with it.
Exactly. I mean that is to much specific information, for a review in an old thread.
Usually, students, ex-students, or instructors search for these threads.
I'm just psyched that we are the 3rd result in a google search of "Lao Chi" now... maybe we'll get more people from the school to speak up.
I've tried to use "Lao Chi" at least twice in every post. I mean, we are talking about Lao Chi Kung Fu, right?
Yes, we are wondering if Lao Chi can be translated. I'm curious if the book, that uses Lao Chi, is fiction. Have you looked?
Then we would know the context of Lao Chi.