Thread: The Sucker Punch Gambit
4/09/2007 1:56pm, #1
The Sucker Punch Gambit
Why is it, when arguing street v sport, that people on the "street" side of the argument like to bring up sucker punches as proof of sport fighting failing?
There are basically two things that come into play when being on the receiving end of this common street tactic. One is your awareness of the situation and the other is your ability to take the punch (both in the sense of quick defensive reflexes and toughness). Awareness is more of a personal attribute and has little to do with the way one trains MA. And who would you think is better able to take a punch? A sportfighter that gets hit a lot in training or someone who doesn't? Any TMAer that fights regularly is going to derive the same benefit, of course. Although most "street fighters" are too deadly to fight as part of their training, so in their view a TMAer that spars hard is still fighting for "sport".
Still, you will often hear/read them post anecdotes like, "I knew this sport guy who said his stuff worked on the street, so I said, 'hey, look!' and when he turned around I hit him with a folding chair. So much for sport fighting, HURR, HURR!!1!11" The fact they always seem to miss, and I'm bolding this for emphasis, is that so-called sucker punches tend to work well on people of any training background. I could pull the same folding chair bit with someone who trains for streetfighting, and indeed I have sprung surprise attacks on such people. Why is that logic so hard for them to grasp?
Oh yeah, I forgot. It's because they don't want to face up to the realities that they would fail in the ring/cage/mat.
4/09/2007 1:58pm, #2
You should just stop arguing with JFS
4/09/2007 2:04pm, #3
LOL. I have. The great TMA experiment is over for me. Ronin is cool, but all that place is is a playground for Jack and the lickspittles that follow him around. Half the people there eat up all his bullshit like it's from God himself, and the rest are too tired of his bullshit to bother agruing with him. Which, because of it's size, makes for way too high a noise to signal ratio. Ironic, since that is one of their biggest complaints about bullshido. Of course, hypocrisy is nothing new to them.
Nevertheless, all my argument with him did was put this fresh in my mind. This tactic (of citing sucker punches) goes well before my ever hearing of JFS. Hell, Elmore has done it (IIRC), Webre, Franco and just about every RBSDer I've ever argued with. Perfect YMAS fodder, if you ask me.
BTW, who are you over there (JJG?), or do you just lurk?
Last edited by Matt W.; 4/09/2007 2:07pm at .
4/09/2007 2:08pm, #4
Here's the thing with JFS, beyond the rants and insults he actually says a lot of worth while, thought provoking stuff even if you don't agree with it.
You just have to filter out the abuse and insults to get to it.
4/09/2007 2:11pm, #5
I'm still of the opinion that JFS can whup that azz. He just talks a lot of ****.
4/09/2007 2:11pm, #6
What site is this you guys are talking about? Where is old JFS making his internet home nowadays?" If one wants to have a friend one must also want to wage war for him: and to wage war one must be capable of being an enemy." - Fr. Nietzsche 'On The Friend' Thus Spake Zarathustra
4/09/2007 2:35pm, #7
4/09/2007 2:56pm, #8
Neildo, I've never crossed hands with him, of course. But I've spoken to some people who have. Consensus seems to be that the guy can fight, but that he doesn't live up to the hype. Also, word is he can't grapple for **** either. Only video I've seen of him is of him playing around (practically non contact) with a guy who appeared to be a TKD newb (?). You couldn't really tell anything about his abilities from it, other than that he seemed marginally better than the other guy. For the record, though, my issues with him have never been over whether or not he could fight. He's one of those guys, who for all he claims I'm full of BS, actually has trained the way I think one should train (started in boxing and does lots of hard sparring in his TMA). He's just too stupid and belligerent to realize it.
4/09/2007 3:05pm, #9
He's a Hung Gar dude, I wouldn't expect much of a ground game from him. You're right on the rest of your points.
In an old thread, Omar got a good still frame image of JFS executing a technique and then posted a picture of a guy doing it in a book. It was picture perfect. If nothing else, JFS has good form.
4/09/2007 3:36pm, #10
Fair enough, Neildo.
Mods, you might want to just go ahead and move this to trollshido. Ceased to even be a YMAS worthy thread.