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  1. chemistry is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/09/2007 1:49pm


     Style: Shotokan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    First, and foremost, if you are going to buy a handgun, it's best to learn on a .22 LR handgun, whether it's a revolver, or semiautomatic.

    Go to your gun range, and rent a .22 LR pistol. It's even better if you have someone reasonably proficient in handguns, helping you learn.

    A .22 LR is a great training tool, since you can learn proper trigger mechanics, without having to complicate things with any significant recoil. You can learn how to squeeze (not jerk) that trigger, and not have to worry about flinching. Once you fired a few hundred .22 LR rounds from a handgun (under supervision), then you should have a fairly decent set of trigger mechanics.

    From there, you should be able to handle the centerfire calibers (9 mm, .38 Special, .357 magnum, .45 ACP, etc).

    I think the worst thing someone can try, is to fire full power .45 ACP rounds from a handgun. Making someone unlearn the fighting of the flinching mechanism is more difficult than training someone from the ground up.

    Best of all, no matter how experienced you are, you can always go back to the .22 LR pistol to hone up your trigger mechanics. Yes, it (breakdown in mechanics) happens to everyone.

    That being said, I'm quite partial to the Glocks, since they have great reliability, durability, and pack probably the most firepower available into that polymer frame.
  2. pauli is offline

    i keep tryin to spar, but nothin happens!

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    Posted On:
    4/09/2007 3:15pm

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     Style: karate / bjj

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by El Macho
    Not to derail, my dad left me a Smith & Wesson 38 Special CTG. Since it was my dad's, it has sentimental value; however, I'd like to know what you guys think of this 38 puppy.
    i think you need to figure out what model and year it is. family guns are always cool.
  3. Don Gwinn is offline
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    BJJ wins again!

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    Posted On:
    4/09/2007 9:02pm

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     Style: Guns

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    This is why I say things like "to my knowledge." Some days, you're just flat out WRONG.
    *********************************************
  4. Nid is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/10/2007 6:40am

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     Style: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Studies have shown that the outward velocity of the tissues in which the temporary cavity forms is no more than one tenth of the velocity of the projectile.
    .223 = c. 2850 fps -----> c. 285 fps.

    That still doesn't cound comfortable.

    Maybe it has always been a matter of ASSUMING what "shock" meant, but for some reason I was never under the impression that the "shock" neccesarily meant permanent damage. Just the temporary expansion, which could "shock" certain systems.

    Like shooting a deer in the neck. They'll drop like a rock. Shot in the heart, they'll run like the wind (for a while). I chalked that up to a "shock wave" affect, screwing with the spinal cord (or maybe blood pressure closer to the brain), even though the spine or brain wouldn't have been directly hit. Last neck shot I witnessed was with a relatively slow .44 magnum, to boot.
    Last edited by Nid; 4/10/2007 6:42am at .
  5. HonkyTonkMan is offline
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    Y SO SRIUS?

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    Posted On:
    4/10/2007 7:37am

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     Style: TKD, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by El Macho
    So my S&W .38 special is not that ghay? Cool!

    What barrel length is it?

    Does it have screws or pins holding the frame together?

    6 or five shot?

    I am curious because if it is the old pin type (not screws holding the frame together) then you cant shoot +P rounds through it on any type of regular basis. I carry +P in mine but just shoot plain old .38 through it for practice.

    I believe that the pin type in 1960-70 vintage before +P. I could be wrong on this, since it has been awhile since I have been in this type of discussion.
  6. HonkyTonkMan is offline
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    Y SO SRIUS?

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    Posted On:
    4/10/2007 7:41am

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     Style: TKD, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Kein Haar
    .223 = c. 2850 fps -----> c. 285 fps.

    That still doesn't cound comfortable.

    Maybe it has always been a matter of ASSUMING what "shock" meant, but for some reason I was never under the impression that the "shock" neccesarily meant permanent damage. Just the temporary expansion, which could "shock" certain systems.

    Like shooting a deer in the neck. They'll drop like a rock. Shot in the heart, they'll run like the wind (for a while). I chalked that up to a "shock wave" affect, screwing with the spinal cord (or maybe blood pressure closer to the brain), even though the spine or brain wouldn't have been directly hit. Last neck shot I witnessed was with a relatively slow .44 magnum, to boot.
    I have shot on in the neck (granted with a 12 ga slug) and he dropped like a rock, just as you said.

    I have also shot one through the heart (Lucky ass shot BTW) with a .30/30 and he didnt take another step. Of course this doesnt mean that I am saying you are wrong because I have also heard the stories of heart shot deer that ran 100 yards before collapsing.

    I believe in the "shock wave" effect as in the initial transfer of bullet energy actually contains the "stopping power" and doesnt really do any real tissue damage.

    Plus I REFUSE to believe that DG is wrong on anything. :)
  7. Moon Dragon is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/10/2007 8:15am


     Style: Krav Maga & MACS

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Being able to hit what you are aiming at is more important than the size of the round that you are firing. I agree that you should start with one of the .22 family of guns (pick the one that you are most comfortable with). Once you have achieved a fair amount of accuracy then you might start looking at a higher caliber.

    As a side note, I knew a guy who was shot with a .50 cal. The bullet passed shrait through his tricept, missing the bone and all major arteries. Which is why I say that it is more important to be accurate than have a higher caliber weapon.
  8. Nid is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/10/2007 11:03am

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     Style: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Oldman,

    You associated with brussells bonsai?

    I've ordered a thing or two from there in the past.

    Having a town-home has been putting a damper on my bonsai butchery. :(

    /De-rail
  9. pauli is offline

    i keep tryin to spar, but nothin happens!

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    Posted On:
    4/10/2007 12:05pm

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     Style: karate / bjj

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by oldman34
    What barrel length is it?

    Does it have screws or pins holding the frame together?

    6 or five shot?

    I am curious because if it is the old pin type (not screws holding the frame together) then you cant shoot +P rounds through it on any type of regular basis. I carry +P in mine but just shoot plain old .38 through it for practice.

    I believe that the pin type in 1960-70 vintage before +P. I could be wrong on this, since it has been awhile since I have been in this type of discussion.
    iirc, s&w's rule of thumb is that anything with a model number is +p safe.

    as a practical matter, most pre-models are +p safe, but it takes a bit more research.
  10. HonkyTonkMan is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/10/2007 3:27pm

    supporting member
     Style: TKD, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Moon Dragon
    The bullet passed shrait through his tricept,
    He is a lucky SOB, because if that bullet would have gone straight through his tricep, then he would have been fucked.

    Just funning you.


    Quote Originally Posted by kein haar
    You associated with brussells bonsai?

    I've ordered a thing or two from there in the past.

    Having a town-home has been putting a damper on my bonsai butchery.
    Derail commencing in 5....4.....3.....2.....1......

    Brussels is about 20 minutes from my house, and I go there about once a week. Its where I buy all my Bonsai stuff.

    I have a 3 year old Japanese Maple, 2- 2 year old Green Mound Junipers, a 1 year old American Red Cedar, a 2 year old Chinese Elm, a 6 year old Five needle Pine, and 3 year old Mugo Pine.

    Martin Brussel's is a really good guy, and he has helped me a lot in the past, plus I LOVE to roam through 96,000 square feet of trees.
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