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  1. Judah Maccabee is offline
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    Bullshido Wikipedia Delegate

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    Posted On:
    8/09/2006 10:23pm

    supporting memberhall of fameBullshido Newbie
     Style: Krav / (Kick)Boxing / BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Obi, you missed the part where they break people's hands by headbutting them.
  2. Don Gwinn is online now
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    BJJ wins again!

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    Posted On:
    8/09/2006 11:01pm

    supporting member
     Style: Guns

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Pfft. Omega does that.
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  3. Omega Supreme is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/11/2006 2:02am

    staff
     Style: Chinese Boxing

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Speaking of omega.....


    Samurai Steve sent me a PM asked me to chime in. I've ignored this thread up til now because I have a few cajun karate guys near me and they seem like decent folk. Of course this was before I read the initial post on this thread.


    SS asked me to comment on the following techniques:

    http://i5.tinypic.com/14w3ms6.jpg

    In theory this would work. The funny thing is I've seen this practiced by many a karateka. Unusual that a person that has never studied Japanese Karate would come up with the exact same defense as a traditionaly shotkan and goju ryu group of instructors, considering this is supposed to be for Americans created by an American. Irony, comes in many forms.

    as for this technique:

    http://i5.tinypic.com/14w3s5f.jpg

    It's crap. I guarantee you that this sort of **** should never be taught to beginners let alone advanced people.

    Any other thing I missed int the previous 69 pages? I only read the first page.
  4. GIJoe6186 is offline
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    An American Hero!

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    Posted On:
    8/11/2006 2:07am

    Business Class Supporting Membersupporting member
     TryKickboxingNow.com - Free Internet Marketing for Kickboxing Programs! Style: BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If this were an American style of martial arts, there would be no gi's or belts or any japanese terms. Also it would probally be composed of western arts. Wrestling, boxing, and catch maybe some stuff from Indian tribes. There weapons would focus on the gun, knife, and stick, maybe some stuff with a bat or chain.

    I read this, saw the site and call complete BS. Even if they could fight, the marketing is utter BS. Its like having a TKD school, claiming pure TKD but teaching people BJJ, Boxing and Wrestling along with the TKD.
  5. Omega Supreme is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/11/2006 2:10am

    staff
     Style: Chinese Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by kojin
    As a 27 year student of Keichu, I am embarassed by virtually every post made here by "Keichu proponents". I am certain that most of you meant well. You just got in over your heads. You are poorly informed.

    I will not address any of the Phd claims, I have no direct knowledge of the particulars. However, I will attempt to clear the mile-long thread of some B.S. that you have helped stir. Since I have not been overly exposed to the more recent teaching of Keichu in California, please note that each of the following points should be prefaced by "As I understand it:"

    1. Keichu is not a "Grappling Art" in the vein of Gracie JuJutsu, etc. To represent it as such is erroneous at best. We have(had) a truly firm foundation in Judo. Kodokan Judo is not cage fighting, period. Some schools, riding the Gracie wave of the 1990's may have jumped on the Sport Grappling bandwagon. Nothing wrong with this,necessarily. But it still does not turn Keichu into an art designed for "ground and pound" or the like.

    2. Point Fighting champions are not street fighters, period. This does not mean that there are not those who may be both, just that one does not mean the other. Most reasonable people understand this; Sadly, some of you who wear the Keichu patch do not.

    3. Keichu is not bad "stand up". It is (depending on the dojo) great "stand up" with practitioners who are well versed in throwing techniques. Most of Keichu's "stand up" is done on the mat, but only because the receiver of the technique is being thrown to the ground. Virtually every drill or self defense set has the defender finishing on his feet. This simple observation should show the "reasonable" that the overall strategy of Keichu is to maintain a standing position while disposing of any threat. Rolling on the ground with an attacker would be very low on the "things to do" list.
    In this, Keichu is very much like any Shuri based karate style. Stand when you can, deflect, gain a superior postion, hit as hard as possible. If necessary, apply a choke, joint-lock, etc. Superior position via body-change steps allows a variety of tactics to be applied, but the overall strategy is "You stand - they don't"

    4. Keichu students wear gis and use Japanese terms because we are a karate style. American? Well, the system was certainly organized on American soil. At the time, its organization was fairly unique. Still, a zenkutsu dachi is a forward stance is a zenkutsu dachi. Mae geri is a front kick - ad infinitum, ad nauseum.

    (By the way, "taking off your flip-flops to throw a kick"? Please stop. Train harder and that 1/2 inch of foam will not significantly protect your opponent.)

    5. "Cajun Karate" is a marketing ploy. A ploy not used, by the way, until Keichu moved to California.

    6. Christ is my Lord, but I seriously doubt that He cares what style I train. I gather He is more interested in my relationship with him, and how I convey that in my daily life. Of course, I could be wrong there.

    7. "Throw downs" are brilliant ideas and rarely related to any SM practices. If these (non-SM versions) are regularly sheduled by the Bullshido members, I would be very interested in attending. Advanced notice would be appreciated. I may not be the best man to stand up for the Keichu style, but I am apparently the most willing.


    Certainly, I was upset by the smears of my teacher. No one likes to hear anyone they care about savaged. But you benighted Keichu people have poured fuel on that fire. Sadly, Soke Marx's posts have not done much to help matters.

    Now that I have posted this heresy, any Keichu-Ka wishing to refute these points knows exactly who I am. Write me directly. Please stop embarassing me publicly, I may do that myself at a throwdown.
    This is how I know the Keichu guys. They are generally nice well thought out people. They may be disillusioned, I don't know but in general they practice a solid art, they don't advocat fighting per se, but they are generally hard working, up front with what they do. I like these guys, which is why I've stayed off this thread. I don't know if their origins are bullshit, which imo I think they are but I like what they've done, I wish more karate schools were like them.
  6. GIJoe6186 is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/11/2006 2:16am

    Business Class Supporting Membersupporting member
     TryKickboxingNow.com - Free Internet Marketing for Kickboxing Programs! Style: BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I dont think theyre assholes either. I dont even hate WC people that much. Its not their fault that they get caught in this type of stuff.

    I agree with Omega though, I know alot of people who study BS through my various jobs Ive had. I dont lash out at them and call them morons. I just point out what I do and why its much different from their style. I just point it out and they either agree or disagree. Thats where I end it mostly, unless they start being asses.

    The thing I hate most to is stuff like this though, where it could be legitimate to use to fight, but its marketing is such crap.
  7. Krav Magolf is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/23/2006 10:29pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: KM

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Formerly trained in Keichu Do

    Well, I'm brand new to this forum, so well see how this goes.

    First of all, I found this thread and began reading, but 70 pages is a bit much so I skipped to the end to post this; if I include in this posting things already mentioned, give me a break...okay? Thanx.

    I trained in Keichu Do Karate while stationed in Hawaii. My training was for about a year before getting deployed to Afghanistan. After that I got out of the Army and left Hawaii, so no more Keichu. I now train in Krav Maga here in Texas.

    Let me say that I LOVED Keichu Do. Is it a pseudo-Japanese knock-off? Yep, sure is. Did I like that stuff? Nope. Hated the katas and traditional karate junk. That stuff is incorporated into the style so they can compete in the USKA and wherever else they compete. I never did 'cause I didn't care for it. However, the style has developed during its time and -- at least at the dojo on Oahu -- taught us some pretty good self defense. It has borrowed heavily from Judo (Marx attained a black belt in Judo AFTER his karate style was already well-established), bjj, boxing, and some nasty street fighting (eye gouges, crushing the throat, clapping the ears, etc). I actually see similarities between Keichu's street fighting techniques and Krav Maga...really nasty stuff (and yep, it DOES tout itself as a Christian MA -- don't ask me to qualify that, okay?) All I know is that I found it to be solid self-defense style. How would it hold up against other styles? Well, it ain't MMA so I don't know. It incorporates the defend/attack/get the hell outta there concept. (Nope, they don't say "get the hell outta there"....they are Christian, remember?)

    So, the bashing of the system is understandable. C'mon, we bash every system, right? But, from my experience it holds its own. Don't agree? Okay, no harm, no foul. Am I gonna be a Keichu advocate? Nope, I'll leave that to KeichuVanguard. Would I practice it again? Only if there was no Krav Maga around. But, that's my preference.

    BTW, Karl Marx received his PhD in Philosophy from the International University of Missouri. Here's a Wikipedia listing for Keichu and its founder.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keichu_do

    It's an iffy school, at best. Accredited through the UK, so don't try to transfer those credits!

    Thanks to all. Hope this helps clarify things.....Yeah right!!
    Last edited by Krav Magolf; 8/23/2006 11:22pm at .
  8. Don Gwinn is online now
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    BJJ wins again!

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    Posted On:
    8/23/2006 10:47pm

    supporting member
     Style: Guns

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Just out of curiosity, did you come to visit us because of the Tiger Klay thread? I always find it interesting how one thread leads to interesting things in others eventually.

    I couldn't help but notice you're a Krav guy from Texas.
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  9. Krav Magolf is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/23/2006 11:19pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: KM

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Obi.1
    "We love punching people on their elbows."

    Direct quote from their website.

    Holy ****.
    Obi.1 --

    Well, I know what you're thinking. I've hit elbows as well as kicked them and it hurt me as much, if not more, than who I hit.

    However, they are referring to a technique where the attacker is struck with a closed fist to their fully-extended arm at the elbow joint. Why they say they love it, I don't know.

    Again, not trying to defend the system. It's just a technique I remember when I trained in it.
  10. Krav Magolf is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/23/2006 11:29pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: KM

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Don Gwinn
    Just out of curiosity, did you come to visit us because of the Tiger Klay thread? I always find it interesting how one thread leads to interesting things in others eventually.

    I couldn't help but notice you're a Krav guy from Texas.
    Don,

    Nah, never heard of Tiger Klay until your posting. LOL. I did some quick referencing and see that he has been quite busy attaining all those credentials. I can't remember how I found this thread to be honest.

    And, yeah, I do Krav down in the Austin area. Just started since we just moved here. So far I like it. It is a stand-alone Krav center....no ATA or anything like that. It suits my preference exactly so I'm happy.

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