short -fist and pak mei

**lee** · Posted On: 4/05/2007 10:36am

l wqa asked a long time ago to give the history of pak mei but its all over the net. l believe prost once said hed like to know more about short -fist. l founded this back in the 70s because what seemed to be out there takes a very long time to learn . what pushed me to create it was l had some students who wanted to fight in a bareknuckle event in taiwan and l had been given a invitation to send a team . l only had a short time to do this . so short fist was born . mike doucet of the c.a.a.c.m.a. was the the leader of this groupe. he is the only one who not only still does it from the original small groupe but has taken it to a higher level . with less than two years he had easily handled a challenge watch against someone who had been learning for many years. this fight was done as the original rules from the kou shou in taiwan and lasted less than 2 minutes of the first round. with him as the winner. which ment that what has created did what it was supposed to. now with his experience over the last decades haveing been put into it its even better. they needed something that could be taught in a few short years and was a effective. hes my best senior student all around and for more information you can go on his website at c.a.a.c.m.a. this will be my last post my typing is bad l know so l hope l havent miscontrued anything to anyone. keep up the good work with bullshido l am retireing from teaching and am going to deal with my family responsibilities now while l have the time.

**Mr. Mantis** · Posted On: 4/05/2007 10:58am

lee,

So, is Short Fist a condensed version of Pak Mei? Like a basic Pak Mei short course?

I hope all is well with your family.

**lee** · Posted On: 4/05/2007 11:07am

l find it hard to explain its art in its own right which was intended to be easier to be used. it probably contains the essense of things l learned over the years like western boxing and so on . the best to ask is to go onto the c.a.a.c.m.a. website . it includes a lot of things that mike put into it which makes it what it is to-day.

**lee** · Posted On: 4/05/2007 11:12am

its more than just forms its what been put in to it. with out knowing the inner workings its just forms . so one could learn a form but still couldnt use it . like l said ask mike in ontario at his website

**OZZ** · Posted On: 4/11/2007 11:05am

Originally Posted by lee

. like l said ask mike in ontario at his website

www.pakmei.net

thanks lee. Hope to see you this summer.

**new2bjj** · Posted On: 4/12/2007 12:35am

What I want to know, is, were Pak Mei and Fong Sai Yuk, Hung Hsi Kwan, etc all mortal enemies, and if he defeated/killed them all, how come there is a Hung Gar System today. OR, was all of this just revisionism, added later, until no one knows what really happened? I admit I have been misinformed by all those old Shaw Bros movies, but it is a serious question.

**OZZ** · Posted On: 4/12/2007 9:40am

Myth and actual historical events are often intertwined when it comes to the origins of kung fu and the lives of masters. The truth of the matter is that no one really knows for certain about such things, but everyone has their opinions.
I have read at least three different versions of the life of Pak Mei on the web and have my own ideas about what actually transpired based on what my instructor has told me and my own research, but it is only an opinion. I am far from an expert on Chinese history and it is difficult to separate myth from reality when attempting to research such things.

**new2bjj** · Posted On: 4/12/2007 10:06am

I read the same things, and it made me wonder if all these stories weren't made up in the early 20th century wu xia novels. Some one could have a grudge, etc. As bad as being a traitor to Shaolin sounds, it also would not be a bad rumor to have-"oh yeah, my system crushed all those other ones, etc".

**burningmonk** · Posted On: 4/13/2007 1:57pm

Hello Lee, Ozz. In reference to the history/legend of Pak Mei, I only know what I have been told about the history from my teacher, however, I do know a little about Asian history, having studied it for some time.

Asian history, particularly Chinese history, is almost impossible to separate from legend. Huge sections of Chinese history, events that would have been large chapters in European history, have been intentionally obliterated by various confucian governments. For these 'historians' history served as a moral lesson for future generations, and there was little desire to stick to the facts. An excellent example is the Chinese voyages of discovery in the early 14 hundreds, voyages that rivalled, and may have surpassed those of later European explorers, but whose history was almost totally destroyed as part of xenophobic paranoia.

The problems of legend and history being intermingled become worse when one is talking about the primarilly oral history surrounding folk legend. While in the west a strong importance may be placed upon keeping the history authentic, in the eastern tradition, greater importance would be placed on the moral imperative of the story---In the case of Pak Mei, the strength of this style (or even the strength of Taoism over Buddhism?) over other styles.

Trying to find real history in Kung Fu legends is problamatic at best. Many of the legends are likely based on real people... or at least real IDEAS... however, they were never meant to be history. They were intended as stories and sometimes lessons.

**OZZ** · Posted On: 4/13/2007 2:06pm

Yes, it is unfortunate that the line between myth and reality is next to impossible to discern when it comes to these sorts of inquiries..as you noted, though, there are some moral and cultural connotations that can be realized through the tales that are out there.
Similar to what is found within Native American oral tradition, I suppose.