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  1. dwhomp is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/04/2007 5:03am


     Style: Xing-Yi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    My recent work against the takedown...

    ...The Good, The Bad, The Ugly of last weekend work.

    Few things:

    1. I should have taped it, I know:( I didnt think about it. I will for the next one.
    2. My purpose was to work on getting away/punishing takedown attempts and jumping on mistakes
    3. I was the biggest guy there so I had a weight/strength advantage over all the guys I worked with. Please factor that into my own summations.
    4. This was not a win/lose kinda thing. If they wanted to work something we did, same for me.
    5. The 4 guys I worked with are Gi MMAers. They admittedly were not strong strikers by their own admission.
    6. Gear was standard, however we did not wear headgear. I did adjust force, however I am well pasted the teh d34dlee str1k3 phase; I know when I could have hurt and when I couldnt have. That is good enough for this session.
    7. My own knowledge of groundfighting is limited at the best.
    8. If this has been done to death and is just garbage, well I am trying to branch out here at the Bullshito;)

    The Good:

    I was able to to identify many takedown attempts by watching their level. As their level changed, I reacted; like if someone chambers their strikes. Sometimes that just meant moving around.

    Where I found the most success was in "jamming" them at the chest/shoulder/head. This jamming is also common for my art/training as well. When I was able to upset their own structure, mine was good enough to capitalize most times. See Number 3 above.

    I had some minimal success pushing them lower as they came in so they didnt control my hips. This however many times had me on my ass as they would snag my ankles. When they did make the snag, I was in a bad spot. When the push worked, they were in a so so spot.

    Sprawling was also worked, but I found I am not so good at it. #3 above made up for some of the time that I was not fast enough. I remembered this from wrestling days but when I was not on a solid sprawl, I was beaten. When I did have it, it was not difficult to return to a position where I wanted to go.

    I was strong from a standing cliche because of #3 and that is something my training works a great deal on; Creating a little space and capatilzing on it. I didnt have many takedowns against me from a clinch. I hear a lot of <oofs> in this spot.

    The Bad:

    When you are not a good grapplin kinda guy, no matter how much stronger you think you are than the guy in front of you, dont try and hook under the arms to control. I was pwn'd hard here and was outclassed. They seemed to feel very comofrtable against the sprawl and "hooks" (is that a right a term?) When I tried it, I became too high up and off balance compared to them. I also could not get any power to strikes as I would have to release and attack and they were able to complete their takedown.

    Also, you cannot deal with takedowns with striking most of the time once they have made contact. It seems you cannot deal with this situation with more offense. While I didnt Unleash The Tiger on em when they were working the takedown, I dont know what a full contacting striking really would have done to make a difference. Maybe some, maybe none, probably a bit of both.


    The Ugly:

    To be fair, I need to share my stupid, my ignorant, my ugly.

    Do not attempt to be sneaky and stomp them with the one foot not locked up. Not only will you eat **** and fall, you will whack the ole noggin....hard.

    Dont try to use knee strikes in the clinch when you are not used to them. You will hit like a 9yr old boy and lose structure and get tossed to the ground so fast. Props to da Mooie Tie guys (gals)!

    Nothin like Grapplin to show you how out of shape you may be.

    Uppercutting the already-shooting guy is not a good idea...you can lose an arm along with the legs. This goes for trying to kick em as well.

    ALWAYS protect your hips.

    Deal with the takedown before you try to get sexy. A good offense is not always the best move.

    Comments, even to include "your post is boring and sucks" are welcome.
  2. Tonuzaba is online now
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    Posted On:
    4/04/2007 5:15am

    supporting member
     Style: (Beautiful) Spring Roll

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Always good to read first hand experiences of training, thanx. Video would be great next time though...

    CLICK & WATCH
    :
    I got BULLSHIDO ON TV!!!

    "Bruce Lee sucks because I slammed my nuts with nunchucks trying to do that stupid **** back in the day. I still managed to have two kids. I forgive you Bruce.
    " - by Vorpal
  3. WhiteShark is offline
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    1% Shark is better than you.

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    Posted On:
    4/04/2007 8:28am

    supporting memberforum leaderstaff
     Style: BJJ/Shidokan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm really torn here. I want to help because you wrote your post so well and you really seem to be trying to share. BUT honestly no matter how eloquently worded it is still basically, "How do clinch?"



    The real answer is you are crappling sure it may be standing crappling but its still crappling. Get some legitimate instruction on clinch for MMA. A wrestling coach with MMA experience is ideal if that is the style you want to learn.
  4. maurice is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/04/2007 11:31am


     Style: Mo-jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    It sounds like you worked on staying on your feet.

    Did you also work on getting back to your feet after being taken down?
  5. Epicurus is offline

    I'm grindin' 'till I'm tired...

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    Posted On:
    4/04/2007 12:14pm


     Style: Judo. Some BJJ/Kickboxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    sounds like something more people should do in their training. Good on you for writing it.

    However, all that 'clinching' and 'sprawling' is a waste of time. Sounds like BS that sport artists are trying to sell you. What you really need when someone shoots in on you is an axe kick to the back of the spine or a toe to the neck. These moves are so deadly, you never even see them in MMA!
    "[Fighting for Points] is doubtless very pretty, and invariably draws applause, but preferences should always be given to blows that do some business, to good straight hits that do something toward finishing the fight.
    A man who has carefully trained for brilliant tapping play, will find himself considerably out of it in case he is called upon to do any real work."
    -A.J. Newton, Boxing.
  6. dwhomp is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/04/2007 10:11pm


     Style: Xing-Yi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by maurice
    It sounds like you worked on staying on your feet.

    Did you also work on getting back to your feet after being taken down?
    This was my primary motivation.
    Working against a takedown and returning to my feet was exactly what I wanted to work on.

    I realized I had been working with just strikers for too long.
  7. dwhomp is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/04/2007 10:12pm


     Style: Xing-Yi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by WhiteShark
    I'm really torn here. I want to help because you wrote your post so well and you really seem to be trying to share. BUT honestly no matter how eloquently worded it is still basically, "How do clinch?"



    The real answer is you are crappling sure it may be standing crappling but its still crappling. Get some legitimate instruction on clinch for MMA. A wrestling coach with MMA experience is ideal if that is the style you want to learn.
    Sorry, I dont understand what you are getting at here.


    EDIT: Read it again. I am not trying to be a MMA guy or style. I am very happy with my style and the like. But I felt I should practice against a takedown since I have been sparring with striking only primarily. The whole idea was to see exactly where I was at, based on what I study, see what works from my own study and what is crap. I have a few things I need to work on, a few that worked very well, a few things that didnt, a few that would be a waste of my time to improve. that is the on-going goal.
    Last edited by dwhomp; 4/04/2007 10:17pm at .
  8. dwhomp is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/04/2007 10:23pm


     Style: Xing-Yi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Epicurus
    However, all that 'clinching' and 'sprawling' is a waste of time. Sounds like BS that sport artists are trying to sell you. What you really need when someone shoots in on you is an axe kick to the back of the spine or a toe to the neck. These moves are so deadly, you never even see them in MMA!
    I kept my secret rare ancient closed-door training Buddha on a mountain Fire Dragon Flaming Fist in reserve as I am not allowed to use it because i am registered with the FBI and have a concealed weapon permit for the Fist.







    ;)
  9. patfromlogan is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/04/2007 10:25pm

    supporting member
     Style: Kyokushinkai / Kajukenbo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by WhiteShark
    I'm really torn here. I want to help because you wrote your post so well and you really seem to be trying to share. BUT honestly no matter how eloquently worded it is still basically, "How do clinch?"



    The real answer is you are crappling sure it may be standing crappling but its still crappling. Get some legitimate instruction on clinch for MMA. A wrestling coach with MMA experience is ideal if that is the style you want to learn.
    Or just spar a lot. A whole lot. Kyokushin taught clinch by doing it over and over and over and having some guy throw you on you ass over and over - and it may not be the fastest way to learn to clinch, but it was fun and in the end, practical. I did learn, years later, a whole lot faster from a good wrestler who taught me to sprawl, but the basic hard sparring clinch can't be beat for hands on learning - learning to KILL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    "Preparing mentally, the most important thing is, if you aren't doing it for the love of it, then don't do it." - Benny Urquidez
  10. WhiteShark is offline
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    1% Shark is better than you.

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    Posted On:
    4/05/2007 2:16pm

    supporting memberforum leaderstaff
     Style: BJJ/Shidokan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by dwhomp
    Sorry, I dont understand what you are getting at here.


    EDIT: Read it again. I am not trying to be a MMA guy or style. I am very happy with my style and the like. But I felt I should practice against a takedown since I have been sparring with striking only primarily. The whole idea was to see exactly where I was at, based on what I study, see what works from my own study and what is crap. I have a few things I need to work on, a few that worked very well, a few things that didnt, a few that would be a waste of my time to improve. that is the on-going goal.

    I didn't mean style as in martial arts style. I meant if wrestling style clinch work and sprawls are what you want to learn go talk to a MMA coach with a wrestling background. Trying to figure it our on your own is going to leave gaping holes in your game and or take a whole hell of a lot longer.
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