Page 2 of 6 First 123456 Last
  1. #11
    i keep tryin to spar, but nothin happens! supporting member

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    herndon, va, usa
    Posts
    3,521
    Style
    karate / bjj
    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Das Moose
    What the hell is that supposed to mean?
    i'm wondering that myself. i mean, there are a lot of things to not like about dhs, but... casting aspersions on the grappling?

  2. #12
    Hedgehogey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Posts
    5,330
    Style
    ^_^
    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by glad2bhere
    If you are addressing me, all I can say is that I have studied Hapkido for over 20 years, I enjoy the art, I enjoy the weapons, I enjoy the challenges and I am heavily invested in both Korean History, Korean Culture and Korean Philosophy.
    There's a name for people who become obsessed with an activity originating from an east asian culture and think this makes them at all qualified to talk about the culture as a whole, it's history, philosophy or traditions. They're called "weaboos".


    "The only important elements in any society
    are the artistic and the criminal,
    because they alone, by questioning the society's values,
    can force it to change."-Samuel R. Delany

    RENDERING GELATINOUS WINDMILL OF DICKS

    THIS IS GOING TO BE THE BEST NON-EUCLIDIAN SPLATTERJOUST EVER

    It seems that the only people who support anarchy are faggots, who want their pathetic immoral lifestyle accepted by the mainstream society. It wont be so they try to create their own.-Oldman34, friend to all children

  3. #13
    Hedgehogey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Posts
    5,330
    Style
    ^_^
    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by PSanderson
    Perhaps the idea of a lock like kotegaeshi-osae (the standing one) is that it's just where you naturally end up after completing the throw?
    Even assuming kotegaeshi worked, I don't care if you're Mike godamn Swain, noone ends up "naturally" ends up like that.


    "The only important elements in any society
    are the artistic and the criminal,
    because they alone, by questioning the society's values,
    can force it to change."-Samuel R. Delany

    RENDERING GELATINOUS WINDMILL OF DICKS

    THIS IS GOING TO BE THE BEST NON-EUCLIDIAN SPLATTERJOUST EVER

    It seems that the only people who support anarchy are faggots, who want their pathetic immoral lifestyle accepted by the mainstream society. It wont be so they try to create their own.-Oldman34, friend to all children

  4. #14

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Asia
    Posts
    702
    Style
    Jabs & Cross Kung Fu
    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by rw4th
    "Immobilizations" they are not.



    Uke could easily escape by turning his body.
    rw4th, I tried turning my body yesterday in practice. Some context, I told the senior instructor (3rd Dan) that I will try to escape (call it courtesy). And he said no problem.
    As I try to wriggle free to escape, I can feel (sorry, as I was belly down, I could not see what he was doing, but I can only describe from the sensation I felt)

    As I try to wriggle free, I felt he shifted his base and tighten further the pull on my locked arm. The most intense pressure comes from locking up my shoulder rather than elbow actually. He kind of stretched by arm and twist it. Again, I felt my shoulder being locked rather than elbow.

    Later I asked him to lock me in a standing position while I try again to escape. Again I had the same sensation, i.e., being locked at the shoulder. I tried to stand up pulling my knees to my belly, but he just move with my motion and relock it again.

    I failed to escape on the on both accounts.

    However, I will try to put these lock on my judo mates next month when I resume training there. Will keep you all posted. There are a couple of brown belters at the judo club and I will ask them to be my test subjects. Sorry, the only black belt person is the SENSEI and he is really out of my league.



    The Uke is just holding his second arm up for the guy to lock at his leasure. Again, all the guy had to do is rotate his body to prevent any of this from happening.
    rw4th, the free hand on this picture if you study carefully is actually tapping the mat. He is definitely not holding it up for the Tori to lock. As this picture is static, I think if uke tries to roll away, a good practitioner worth his salt will just flow with the go and reapply the lock.

    I'm not even going to get started on the video. Each one of these is bullshit, and this is still Bullshido. If you want to discuss larping take it to MAP or e-Budo.
    The video is a kata version of the technique, it is not Randori. Take it for what it is.

    GMW

  5. #15
    Virus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    6,964
    Style
    Judo
    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm sure you're going to discover what every functional grappler so far has failed to realize and usher in the new age of r34l aikido grappling.

    The problem with your experiment is that you're letting your instructor put the hold on 100% before trying to escape. If you put an experienced bjjer in an armbar and fully locked it in (provided sound technique) they probably couldn't escape either.

    If this stuff worked, at a level approaching fundamental bjj and judo grappling, then you would see it being used all the time. You don't. Becuase it simply isn't very good, for reasons already elaborated on.

    PS: "Kata Version" is just TMA-speak for "Doesn't work".
    Last edited by Virus; 4/07/2007 10:43am at .

  6. #16

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Asia
    Posts
    702
    Style
    Jabs & Cross Kung Fu
    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Virus
    I'm sure you're going to discover what every functional grappler so far has failed to realize and usher in the new age of r34l aikido grappling.
    Hey, what is so wrong about putting some clichéd "aliveness" into one's practice. I may not be able to T3H GR4PPL3 fully with my aiki-mates, but at least we hope to pressure test the technique to find a workable solution.

    Quote Originally Posted by Virus
    The problem with your experiment is that you're letting your instructor put the hold on 100% before trying to escape. If you put an experienced bjjer in an armbar and fully locked it in (provided sound technique) they probably couldn't escape either.
    OK, so the problem is not the lock itself, but the process of getting to lock is it. I will try to work on the escapes and counter with my aiki-mates and get them to adopt this pressure testing mentality more. Luckily there are a small handful of players at my old club that has this mentality as well.

    I agree Virus, I need more pressure testing of the aiki-techniques, to see how far I can take them.

    GMW

  7. #17
    OFFICIAL Mayor of Cwcville supporting member
    Boyd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Cwcville
    Posts
    5,388
    Style
    Electricity, Speed
    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    One of the great joys in life, something I'm sorry not everyone can experience, is hearing a TMA crappler clumsily regurgitate BJJ catchphrases to justify his own miserable (Hap/Aiki)do training. It's great. Imagine training BJJ for four years and using concepts like "leverage" and "body positioning" in actual training, then going online to find a gaggle of Aikidoka frantically garbling NO NO SEE I'M LEVERAGING HIS PINKY BY USING HIP CONTROL TO ATTACK HIS FAR SIDE-ARM WITH ALIVENESS AND GUSTO.

    I wish I had a .wav file of Kevin Spacey as Lex Luthor that I could install on your hard drive, so that every time you pressed the "submit reply" button your computer would remind you that you are, in fact, very very WRONG


    Quote Originally Posted by GRAB MY WRIST
    Hey, what is so wrong about putting some clichéd "aliveness" into one's practice. I may not be able to T3H GR4PPL3 fully with my aiki-mates, but at least we hope to pressure test the technique to find a workable solution.
    Would you like to know what the "workable solution" is here, friend? You'll like this, it's an MMA cliche borrowed from JKD. See, this is what we refer to as discarding what is useless. You've probably heard people say that before; you probably nodded your head, maybe grunted "makes sense", and then asked Shihan why you can't get your ridiculous low-percantage finger-pin to work against anybody but Angry Spastic. This technique will not work against anyone with even a rudimentary understanding of body mechanics.


    1. That's not a lock. His elbow is not in danger. His shoulder could potentially be locked, but only if uke voluntarily moves his own elbow to a 90 degree angle. Notice how I said "moves", not "leaves there". If uke isn't trying to get into tori's pants, which given the sychophantic cockgargling of most Aikidoka is highly unlikely, he could just straighten his arm out and negate the shoulder lock.

    2. No control of the hips



    This is an omoplata. It is a real technique used by actual fighters who know what they're doing. In this gif the technique is taken to completion, though in practice finishing an omoplata is very difficult because it relies on being able to break your opponent's posture with just your legs, or worse, prevent them from rolling by blocking their entire body with just your arm. While both outcomes are very difficult to achieve against a skilled opponent, the omoplata remains an effective technique because it allows you to use two legs to attack one shoulder.

    The technique in question uses one arm to control one arm, and doesn't even demonstrate a cursory attempt to block the hips or prevent the roll.

    3. Uke can just turn onto his side. A hand on the shoulder will not prevent him from turning, especially if uke can get to his knees, which he will, since only in Aikido demos do people just sprawl themselves out like that.

    4. Uke just sprawls himself out like that Breaking someone's posture from rear mount is sometimes easier said that done, particularly if the opponent has a wrestling or judo background. Doing it properly--with both hooks in--is hard enough, to say nothing of just lying on his arm.

    5.Uke seems to be finger-locking himself What the ****?

    That move is worthless. That position is worthless. It is worthless as a submission, it is worthless as a "transitional posture", it is worthless as an immobilization. Discard it.

    OK, so the problem is not the lock itself, but the process of getting to lock is it. I will try to work on the escapes and counter with my aiki-mates and get them to adopt this pressure testing mentality more. Luckily there are a small handful of players at my old club that has this mentality as well.
    No, the problem is with the lock itself. Pressure testing is worthless if you refuse to acknowledge the results of that testing.
    Captain's Log: Just a little update for all my TRUE and HONEST friends out there:

    1) I am STRAIGHT! I am STRAIGHT! Get it through your thick skulls, numbskulls!

    2) My name is not Ian Brandon Something.

    3) Kacey is coming with me now. I have stolen her from the other Christian Weston Chandler.

    REMINDER: I am still the one and only true creator of sonichu and rosechu electric hedgehog pokemon

  8. #18
    I am a Ninja bitches!! Deal with it Join us... or die
    Goju - Joe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    7,854
    Style
    Improv comedy
    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I partially agree.

    I have been in that lock and when applied competently its near to impossible to get out and hurts like a bitch.

    The question is I really can't see how to get anyone with moderate grappling skill into it. as is shown in that picture.

    So while the lock can work in of itself applying it is next to impossible

  9. #19
    I am a Ninja bitches!! Deal with it Join us... or die
    Goju - Joe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    7,854
    Style
    Improv comedy
    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    That wasn't my point. I was addressing the specific comment from Boyd on why it doesn't work. His point on why it doesn't work is that the lock itself doesn't hurt. My point is that it does but is doesn't work because it's near impossible to get it on a resisting person.

    It's just a difference of opinion as to why it doesn't work

  10. #20
    Rock Ape's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    9,994
    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Wow.. an aikido thread in this forum... Friggin' amazing (and obviously doomed). lol
    "To sin by silence when one should protest makes cowards out of men".

    ~Ella Wheeler

Page 2 of 6 First 123456 Last

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Log in

Log in
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO