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  1. GRAB MY WRIST is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/04/2007 4:54am


     Style: Jabs & Cross Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Aikido osae (immobilization)

    Coming from this thread, there are some pictures that I think is worth discussing among us doing aikido peepul.

    First one is this: which was posted by Dave Humm/Rock Ape. This is how I am taught as well. Notice how little space is created between uke and tori. The frontal weight is also essential to force uke's shoulder to touch the floor, thus making escape very difficult.

    Second image is the lock after Kote-Gaeshi . (picture supplied by Virus) Once you throw uke with Kote-Gaeshi, uke is usually belly up. Gripping the elbow of uke, while maintaining the Kote-gaeshi grip, flip uke over to achieve lock as in picture 2. Again, to reduce the the opportunity for uke to escape, there is a downward push against the elbow. This will jam the shoulder against the floor, thus making uke's escape very difficult. Does the aikido people on this forum do these minor thingy to acheive a better lock?

    I tried to look for shihonage pin using Google, but I could not locate a good example so I tried YouTube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osBM-z7hmx4. Anyway, this is the kata/text book version of how to do Shihonage (Yoshinkan way). After slamming uke on the mat, you kneel beside uke. The space between tori and uke should be very tight.

    Well, come on right in, aikido people. Let's discuss the various immobilization in our syllabus.

    GMW
  2. glad2bhere is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/04/2007 9:21am


     Style: Yon Mu Kwan Hapkido

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    For a Hapkido practitioner such as myself these three techniques are familiar enough. The Hammerlock Pin is usually done two-handed and without the pressure on the jaw. I have also incorporated a Floor Pin (Wrist press to the floor) which encourages the person on the floor to rotate about his axis as though to reach back and grab me. Tats usually when I add a "snare" such as is shown in the second pic. Snares are very effective and are all to common in DRAJJ.

    The last one (Primary Shoulder Lock) is very effective and proceeds from the earliest roots of MA in which fractures, dislocations and other damage was acceptable to the more primitive approach of simply killing one's adversary. Nowadays the typical Hapkido students is repelled by the thought of actually damaging his attacker. Some of us, however, have few such reservations. :-)

    Best Wishes,

    Bruce
  3. Hedgehogey is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/04/2007 5:17pm

    supporting member
     Style: ^_^

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Seriously, how about you actually learn how to grapple instead?


    "The only important elements in any society
    are the artistic and the criminal,
    because they alone, by questioning the society's values,
    can force it to change."-Samuel R. Delany

    RENDERING GELATINOUS WINDMILL OF DICKS

    THIS IS GOING TO BE THE BEST NON-EUCLIDIAN SPLATTERJOUST EVER

    It seems that the only people who support anarchy are faggots, who want their pathetic immoral lifestyle accepted by the mainstream society. It wont be so they try to create their own.-Oldman34, friend to all children
  4. glad2bhere is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/04/2007 6:08pm


     Style: Yon Mu Kwan Hapkido

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Hedgehogey
    Seriously, how about you actually learn how to grapple instead?

    If you are addressing me, all I can say is that I have studied Hapkido for over 20 years, I enjoy the art, I enjoy the weapons, I enjoy the challenges and I am heavily invested in both Korean History, Korean Culture and Korean Philosophy. What passes for grappling in many of the forum just doesn't interest me.

    As far as the techniques go are we not suppose to be discussing techniques here? Comments?

    Best Wishes,

    Bruce
  5. rw4th is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/04/2007 11:39pm


     Style: BJJ,MT,RBSD (on hiatus)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    "Immobilizations" they are not.



    Uke could easily escape by turning his body.



    The Uke is just holding his second arm up for the guy to lock at his leasure. Again, all the guy had to do is rotate his body to prevent any of this from happening.

    I'm not even going to get started on the video. Each one of these is bullshit, and this is still Bullshido. If you want to discuss larping take it to MAP or e-Budo.
  6. Hedgehogey is offline
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    Tsun-Derrorist

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    Posted On:
    4/05/2007 4:15am

    supporting member
     Style: ^_^

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ninjew
    Kudari Ude Gyaku
    Gyaku Oni Kudaki
    Kumura

    What ever you call it , it works, its common, what is the point?
    You're absolutely right. There is absolutely no tragicomic "immobilization" that olnly works on someone who's pretty much already decided that he's going to bite the pillow in this thread, nor is there any impotent attempts at defense using the likes of "he's kneeling NEXT to him", an excuse so lame I don't think even you buy it. You also won't find any desperate attempts to rub some of the legitimacy of BJJ off onto the fat, pockmarked and rheumily life-weary face of Hapkido by invoking the kimura. That sub olnly resembles the gotarded, catch wrestling-esque pile of soggy dongs in the first post in that both are performed with a bent arm, which means your attempt at a connection is like jerking off with icy-hot and thinking this allows you to understand the tragedy of slavery.


    "The only important elements in any society
    are the artistic and the criminal,
    because they alone, by questioning the society's values,
    can force it to change."-Samuel R. Delany

    RENDERING GELATINOUS WINDMILL OF DICKS

    THIS IS GOING TO BE THE BEST NON-EUCLIDIAN SPLATTERJOUST EVER

    It seems that the only people who support anarchy are faggots, who want their pathetic immoral lifestyle accepted by the mainstream society. It wont be so they try to create their own.-Oldman34, friend to all children
  7. Das Moose is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/05/2007 9:14am


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by glad2bhere
    If you are addressing me, all I can say is that I have studied Hapkido for over 20 years, I enjoy the art, I enjoy the weapons, I enjoy the challenges and I am heavily invested in both Korean History, Korean Culture and Korean Philosophy. What passes for grappling in many of the forum just doesn't interest me.
    What the hell is that supposed to mean?
  8. PSanderson is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/05/2007 9:20am


     Style: Aikido, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Perhaps the idea of a lock like kotegaeshi-osae (the standing one) is that it's just where you naturally end up after completing the throw? That is, you do kotegaeshi, uke lands on their back, you torque their shoulder to put them on their stomach instead, and then you have the position in the photo. It's not a "submission" you would go for on its own. Rather, it's just the grip/position you naturally have after the throw is done. So why not use it, at least to constrain uke from just hopping up?

    From there, you can perhaps put some hurt on the shoulder. They can roll to the side, but it still seems that nage has the advantage. They can kick or stomp uke as they roll over, and assume any number of BJJ-style positions if they want to complete the submission.

    Thus, not a "hold" in the sense of "from this position, go for this submission hold". But rather, a post-throw form to get the most positioning advantage out of your throw.
    Last edited by PSanderson; 4/05/2007 9:25am at .
  9. Shuma-Gorath is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/05/2007 9:29am

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     Style: BJJ - Homeland Security

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Thread reopened for further justified abuse.
    Last edited by Shuma-Gorath; 4/05/2007 5:42pm at .
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