Upside Down, Palm Out - Thumb Down Hook?

[sochin101]

My teacher chambered and then instead of throwning a regular hook, he turned his hand over, thumb down / palm & fingers out, cocked his wrist up, and threw this funny hook.

In karate, the punch you're describing* is the mawashi zuki or roundhouse punch.

We were always taught it with a wide, looping trajectory which made it, frankly, pointless.
Only really useful for striking the back of the head/kneck from a clinch with your knuckles, rather than your fingers and palm-heel like a normal hook.

*unless I'm mis-reading your description, if so... sorry :-)

[Jim_Jude]

Yes, sochin101, that pic looks right on. And yes, he only uses it from close range/clinch range, but he also uses it as a kind of riposte when he's sidestepping something. That punch just comes out of nowhere.

And yes, his wrists are freakishly strong. I guess that comes from the iron palm conditioning.

He strikes the back of the head and neck, but seems to prefer a temple strike. I felt his arm and everything is tight, the elbow and the wrist. Tho, I believe that alot of the power comes from the weight shift that he uses, he teaches not to throw it with just the arm. Also, say he throws a right, then his left hand is trapping the opponent's left arm, usually at the elbow or just above. I wouldn't use it as an opening move, only after already closing and jamming.

Also, now that I look at look at it, I would say that the foot work is different too.

[Jim_Jude]

Thanks for the replies guys.

[Judah Maccabee]

I've seen this taught in boxing as a long-range hook, but I've either jarred my elbow or my wrist while doing it on a heavy bag, and don't do it.

[Teh El Macho]

Hey Judah, just for curiosity I tried some isometrics with the first against a wall, thumbs down as in that punch. Just buy pushing hard against the wall, I could feel it's too horribly easy to pop a wrist.

For those who can actually pull it off, have you done any particular conditioning, or is it more a function of having relatively thick wrist bones (ala Igor Vovchanchyn)?

[Jim_Jude]

We don't do it as a long-range strike, but with the wrist cocked back to use the top knuckles, and the elbow is almost at a 90degree angle. Close hooking to the ribs and other mentioned targets.

[Jim_Jude]

I'll have to figure out how to post a vid soon.

[Permalost]

There's a sort of strike called a popper that you throw from a necktie by quickly extending the arm so the inside of the elbow joint pops into the head or neck. Sometimes I rotate the thumb down so it can get a slightly downward angle to set up snap down type stuff.

[sochin101]

Also, now that I look at look at it, I would say that the foot work is different too.

Yeah, he's doing it in classic unworkable shotokan front stance.

[sochin101]

For those who can actually pull it off, have you done any particular conditioning, or is it more a function of having relatively thick wrist bones (ala Igor Vovchanchyn)?

For my part, it was only ever used as nuisance value; rabbit punches to the back of the head and neck from a clinch position (which generally meant two gassed krotty dudes leaning on each other catching their breath).
I wouldn't use it for, say, a hook to the body... certainly the version we used would lead to a bent wrist with any serious power.
Also, I remember it being difficult to get the hips involved in the punch because of the mechanics of it, so it lacked the power of a normal hook.

I'd be interested to see a vid if Jim_Jude can get one of his teacher throwing it.