Never fails start talking grips and Neil Adams pops up
Andre Taylor, Neil Adams and myself at a clinic in Texas.
With good reason he is the man when it somes to grips. I own that book and his taiotoshi and armbars also. BTW Mr Adams has a grip like a steel vise. The only way I could get him to let go was for him to throw me. He would let go so I could get up.
One note about the caliber of human being that he is. During the clinic his brother had passed "Gentleman" Chris Adams , a pro wrestler. Mr. Adams finished the clinic to honor his word to us then went to his family. Having a chance to train with him on 3 seperate occasions I am a huge fan of his and cant speak highly enough about him. After spending time with him you understand what a world class athlete really is like.
Personally grip fighting is the biggest missed oppuritunity for any grappling competitor. Its a great way to shut down another players attacks. Whileestablishing yourself for a great attack.
Here is an easy setup or grip strategy for beginners. When someone reaches for your lapel intercept it with both hands and establish a grip on the sleeve end. Now take his arm and push it down to his leg while grabbing the lapel. Now you should have a sleeve lapel grip while he has one hand removed from action and is scrambling. Circle to the sleeve hand and you should have him in perfect throwing position. I have some video I will try to chop up and post if yall would like to see of one of my clinics.
i'm just beginning to appreciate this aspect of the standing judo/bjj game. it's taught in my judo classes, and also in my bjj classes, since one of my bjj instructors is a judo shodan.
one of my friends, after i demonstrated a few grips and such, said: "oh, it's like judo pummelling!" and i guess it's just that important. no wrestler is gonna let you pummel your way to double unders or taking his back, and a judo player should be just as dedicated towards dominating the grip fight with the gi.
gripping is something, like El Macho said, that i've slowly learned in the context of tachi-waza, and especially through watching how good judo players grip for their throws.
(unfortunately i can't turn my left hand face-up, so i have a rather weak underside-of-the-sleeve grip on my left side. with my newfound appreciation for grip fighting, i'm working on using the topside-of-the-sleeve grip, right on their bicep basically. anyone with cool tricks from here, please share.)
i deal with a lot of stiff-armers, guys who get a grip and just "frame up" against you, keeping you from entering for hip throws in any way. of course, when they do that, they aren't going to throw you either.. so you have all the time in the world to think about how to launch them.
i'm trying to deal with this terribly annoying habit in three ways:
1. dominate the grip fight, keep those hands off you
2. "long-distance throws" like hiza guruma, sasae tsurikomi ashi
3. the makikomis
the reason 1. is 1. is that i've noticed that a determined and marginally skilled competitor will, if they get a good grip, sufficiently immobilize your shoulders such that you can't really move in for a throw. this is really frustrating for a newb like me, because i have a really great uchi-mata that i can never get the entry for (luckily for everyone else, hmmph).
... remember that scene in 300 where leonidas is wrestling with his kid, and he holds him away with his hand on his head?
the little kid pushes the hand away and enters in. basically, with larger opponents, i feel like that little kid, and i'm beginning to think that little kid had the right idea. =P
i guess this throw illustrates that principle:
they can't block your entry if you control their hand on that side. =)
Last edited by Shuma-Gorath; 4/24/2007 3:02pm at .
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The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
Leere, about the stiff arming, here's what I like to do, along the lines of your option 2. (Not that I'm the most experienced) As your opponent stiff arms, drive forward, faking an Osoto gari or something similar. Do this several times, and he will tend to move his feet back to brace himself, tipping forward a bit and overextending in the forward direction. Once you've got him leaning, drive one last time, then quickly drop back giving him a good pull. I like to go to Harai Tsurikomi Ashi, but have also seen a lot of the folks from my club stick Tomoe Nage as well. I've launched people with the Ashiwaza on several occasions. Quite fun.
The Osoto to Ashi combination is one of my favorites, and I've had very consistent success with it. It seems to work particularly well against wrestler types who tend to stiff arm and keep their weight forward and their legs back.
I'm pretty low on the food chain here, so I can't offer a lot of advice, but here goes:
One of the grip-building techniques I've done during practice was simply doing randori, but stopping once one player had a clearly dominant grip. Once you've attained dominance in the grip, simply disengage and restart.
Your knuckles may curse you (from the grip-breaking), but it worked really well to develop the strategy, and to find out what works, what doesn't, and your contingency plans.
I cant rip the DVD to a suitable format to place it as an mpeg any help would be nice. If anything I will reshoot some footage in the next month or so anyway so I will just place that on here when I get the chance.
I know Im a noob but hear me out.....
Being a wrestler grip fighting is alot different but offers hand speed and arm strength which I have noticed in my tournaments especially when I go to shoot for the legs I seem to get awesome power behind it and am able to get in some pretty sweet throws
To really boost my judo game (which I have none, I mean I practically pull a guard at Randori in a bad tomoenage or tani-otoshi attempt) I have decided to dedicate myself to grip fighting this semester.
Since my university judo club is pretty large (upwards of thirty people everyday, many new kids come and go) the higher belts don't often have time to sit out and teach me some of their grips with more detail.
However, I have tons of partners whom I can drill grip fighting sequences with.
Until next semester when the size of the club gets smaller and the coaches are less busy, what resources would you guys recommend (videos, books, etc) to get a better understanding and application of grip fighting?
As I read the thread, Neal Adams popped up and his "Grips" book. That's the book my coach reccomended also, but that books seems to be hard to come by. There are also the Rhadi Ferguson and Jimmy Pedro videos, but their advertising kinda turns me off of them. If anyone reccomends them, I'll be sure to try them out.
Any other resources I may be missing?
Last edited by Munacra; 10/06/2007 8:37pm at .
More and more, the more I learn about judo. It took me a while to get used to not being satisfied with mediocre grips, and breaking my opponent's grips in order to reset and attack for my own grips.
How much strategy and thought do you place on grip fighting while standing? Do you have an attack plan to get your favorite grip to be able to throw or do you just take what you can get?
As soon as I learned how important gripfighting was, I made it a point to repeatedly ask my instructors to teach me some gripfighting basics. Some of the responses, in no particular order, were:
Top Judo players know this is the key to success but why doesn't this get hammered into new students?
"Just play around with the grips, you'll learn it as you go."
"What's your favorite throw? Ok, here's a good grip, go for that."
"Just watch better players gripfight."
"Don't do this, do this."
"Here's a good grip to work on, play from this grip for a while."
I have yet to have be taught a full lesson on gripfighting, and thus a large part of my very limited gripfighting knowledge comes from books and instructionals, which is a very large warning flag for me. However, all my attempts to deal with this issue have been unsuccessful thus far.
I think part of it may be that there is no accepted syllabus that beginners must know (to the best of my knowledge), so instructors need to put more effort into thinking about what they need to teach. Without gripfighting, teaching a newb is relatively simple, just show them breakfalls and tumbling, then demonstrate and walk them through some basic throws. With gripfighting, it seems that instructors are somewhat afraid of teaching newbies, because they worry that noobs won't be able to understand the complexities of gripfighting, or that it will distract them from learning throws properly and get them to play "swat the hand" instead.
Last edited by ViciousFlamingo; 10/06/2007 8:51pm at .
My instructor places a huge emphasis on grip fighting. Yesterday it helped me win a match, however I couldn't control the grips on the 2nd guy I fought and he owned me.
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