Thread: Lothar Lee in Australia
4/11/2007 4:41pm, #31
- Join Date
- Apr 2007
Here is my gut feelings on Lothar based on no evidence, just my own personal opinion. I think he is a want to be black belt who has not been able to get there the usual way due to maybe physical limitations or maybe his pig headiness. His level I would say would be about 6th Kyu defiantly not Godan. He is on a power trip & wants desperately to be a karate instructor. That is why he has chosen to call himself a Godan instead of something a little less noticeable like a Shodan or maybe even Nidan. I think he actually believes his own lies & thinks he really is a Godan that being said though he has been very clever in setting up his rouge. I think the reason for him specifically targeting children is it negates the possibility of an experienced person walking into his dojo & catching him out again. It must have been very embarrassing to of been caught out the first time so teaching kids limits the possibility of it happening again. That being said would I leave my children alone under his supervision, I don’t think so.
So I think he is not in it for the money, there are easier & safer ways to con people out of money. He is on a power trip & has mental problems. He is capable of rational thought when it comes to maintaining his bullshit but convinces himself that his lies are the truth in the end.
4/12/2007 12:24am, #32
- Join Date
- Aug 2006
- NSW, Australia
I think it would be wise to refrain from trying to understand the man's intentions and thought processes, and instead rely on the facts. He's fraudalently misrepresented himself as a MA instructor and continues to do so. I believe thats the scope of things BS is concerned with. If he happens to be a kiddy fiddler, then its a matter for QLD Police.
While it a bit of a moot point now, What details has he provided in regards to the instructor who gave him his Go-Dan. More importantly, what about his previous Dan gradings, was it the same instructor or another person. To me it seems important in case Mr Lothar Lee, isn't an isolated case. Another interest is to whether he's graded anyone, as their grades will of course need to be re-evaluated.
4/12/2007 2:34am, #33
Mods, thanks for the de-trollshido-ation.
Kumite Junky: BloodMagus is correct: On here, we'll deal with the possible fraudulent Godan and mis-use of SKI logos etc first.
Anything else that surfaces is a matter for the relevant authorities.
With regard to your other matters: Insurance. Yeah, I agree this is a big thing, and checking with your local council about his insurance is good.
Lee's "state of mind and _________" I'm not a mental health expert... I don't know that you are/are not. Lee's on a power trip? Maybe. Compulsive liar? Perhaps. The other thing you hint at? Remember the authorities chose to issue him with a blue card... they obviously have no evidence of any wrong-doing prior to that.
You're obviously very passionate about this man, and want to protect those that aren't as informed as you... but "guessing" his motives and acting on your hunches is possibly a little bit dangerous.
I'm still awaiting replies to the emails I sent to the SKI admins.
4/12/2007 8:27pm, #34
- Join Date
- Apr 2007
Ok I will keep to the facts at hand.
Here is what is happening regarding insurance. Lothar has told the council he now belongs to SKI as a separate entity from SKIA & is covered under them, total crap. James Fitzgerald is the guy in charge of the council’s community centers, firstname.lastname@example.org
When I spoke to him on the phone today he requested SKIA informs him in writing what the situation really is so he is able to take action. I have emailed Lex McKinley informing him about this so hopefully Lothar will be without a dojo shortly.
BloodMagus, Lothar provided the name of someone in Germany who supposedly graded all of his Dan gradings, can’t remember the name but Kym Pringle could provide you with it if you wanted. Investigations found this person turned out to be a fictitious character anyway. As I understand it at that time all gradings of high level required the signature of one particular person in Japan which Lothars certificates do not posses. Maybe someone who knows Shotokan history could provide that persons name as I don’t know it of the top of my head. What SKIA did regarding all of us who graded under Lothar are we all got to keep the grade we are on & we are all required to put the effort in to get our skills up to speed. Sensei Kym & Peter conducted a training session after the meeting on the 10th March primarily to access what our skill levels were. Their comments were we only require a little tweaking here & there which is a credit to the senior students. There are a few of us who have moved up to Townsville with previous experience, myself included & trained under Lothar. This is how Lothar was originally exposed by experienced students picking up on his obvious shortcomings & notifying SKIA that there was a problem. There is one previous student who Lothar graded to Shodan though who will have to do a confirmation grading if he wishes to return to Shotokan. He no longer lives in Townsville & trains with a different style as Shotokan is not available where he lives. A point of interest is he’s a police officer as well.
I have forwarded my emails from SKIA onto Sochin for him to look over too.
4/14/2007 2:46am, #35
I've received a reply from Bran Cox:
Dear Mr ****,
In reply to your inquiry.
Mr Lothar Lee is not currently registered as an Instructor with SKIA
(Shotokan Karate International Australia) or SKIF (Shotokan Karate-do
International Federation). He is, however, a current financial member of
SKIA. The club at which he is teaching is not currently registered with SKIA
or SKIF and he does not hold any Dan Grades registered with either
organisation. If Mr Lee is, in fact, operating a Karate Club, he is doing it
without the blessing or support of SKIA or SKIF. SKIA intends looking into
the matter of Mr Lee and which organisations he claims to represent as a
teacher of Karate-do.
In support of his application to join SKIA, in 2005, Mr Lee provided copies
of both Yondan and Godan Certificates, clearly marked as being issued by the
Japan Karate Association, which are certified by a Mr Peter Schroeder out of
Hamburg Germany. The certificates were certified during the 1980's and
cannot be verified, after inspection of the photocopies by SKIF
Headquarters, in Japan, as actually being issued by Japan Karate Association
Headquarters, in Japan. As a result of this, SKIF Headquarters would not be
accepting the certificates without additional supporting documentation. As
far as I am aware, Mr Lee has not provided any additional documents that
would serve to support the Yondan and Godan Certificates he has presented.
That is as much information I am able to give you with regard to Mr Lothar
Lee's status with SKIA or SKIF. I hope you find it helpful.
Brian Cox - Nandan SKIF
SKIA Memberships Officer
Next step would be to find out if Mr Peter Schroeder exists... any bullies from Hamburg? Lived in Hamburg? Stationed near Hamburg when serving overseas? If so, any knowledge of the local MA scene?
4/14/2007 2:51am, #36
A tranlastion of this page: http://translate.google.com/translat...006-31,GGGL:en
says that in 1982 Peter Schroeder was a 4th dan. From my (albeit limited) experience I wouldn't think he'd be able to grade anyone to 5th dan.
4/16/2007 9:59pm, #37
- Join Date
- Apr 2007
this seems to be something i might be able to shed some light on - figured it was a deserving first post on BS!
i just went through the five -and-something pages of posts, and can lend weight to the issues brought up by kumite junky.
i moved to townsville a few years ago, and at that point of time, there were no shotokan clubs in town.
i have personally trained with lothar lee on and off for a number of years now. my principal motivation was the lack of any other shotokan club in townsville, and the chance to help some of the new students with their learning. with a little bit over 20 years of training behind me, there is no doubt in my mind that lothar's abilities fall desperately short of his claims. while he has not openly stated his claimed rank in any recent advertising material, he makes a point of stating it to all visitors to his club. he has also used the rank to add weight to letters he has written to various local government officials and corporate groups in a bid to secure funding. most recently, he applied for funding for his trip to tokyo during the SKIF world championships (Nov2006), saying that as a 5th dan, he was going to compete and publicize townsville at the tournament. he has also borrowed money from residents using his 'standing and rank in the martial arts community' as security. his own website:
also had mention of his rank, but this has been removed recently. while mr. cox was being diplomatic and polite with his reply, lothar lee's certificates were identified by members of the SKIF HQ as being illegitimate, having been sourced from macau. all the supplied cert.s had the same serial number. these certificates were supplied to SKIA after 2 yrs of being repeatedly asked by the administration. before this,when students/parents had asked to see his credentials, he claimed that they had been destroyed when his boat (which he claimed to have on the gold coast) sank. he also previously claimed that he had been graded to current rank by a senior japanese instructor - ikuro sugiyama - and had attended the JKA instructors' course. for anyone in the know, the latter claim is impossible to be untraceable - especially for a westerner in the 80s. recently, lothar circulated an email from sugiyama saying he should organise to have his rank registered with SKIA, but forgot to remove the message to which this was a reply. lothar's message to mr. sugiyama claimed that he had been graded to 5th dan by peter schroeder in germany, and asked if sugiyama could organise the dan-registration for him. interestingly, lothar also claims that after training in japan with sugiyama,he came straight to NSW - if sugiyama had not graded him, and he was not 5th dan when he left japan.....discrepancy anyone?
lothar has used the relative isolation of townsville from the rest of the SKIA to flout rules and standards with impunity. when questioned, he has been extremely aggressive, and gone to great lengths to cause hassles for senior members of his erstwhile club. most recently, we have worked out that he had been taking money from members for registration and grading affiliation with SKIA without passing the funds on, the result being that members who joined in the latter half of 2006, and students 'graded' by him during that period, have nothing to show for the money they spent.
4/18/2007 12:44am, #38
- Join Date
- Apr 2007
Thank you for your very informative input kohai & welcome to this thread.
Here is a bit of an update. Lothar has been continuing to heavily canvass the area with his fraudulent advertising material. Hopefully we have managed to remove most of it & it has been kept for evidence for when it’s needed. I notice that there was an email address I have not seen before, email@example.com & he is directing people to this web site www.websyteskia.websyte.com.au On this web site he had published a photo with my children in it which is highly illegal & severely pissed me right of. If you want to publish photos of children you must have written permission from the parents, even schools have to do this. Instead of doing what I felt like, introducing him to my mighty Mawashi Geri, I phoned him instead, girlfriends instructions, & told him in no uncertain terms to remove it or else. He told me very aggressively that he trains the police, has studied the law & I don’t know what I am talking about in which I replied “remove it or I will press charges”. He hung up on me but in about ten minutes he rang me back & informed me he had removed the offending photo, which he has.
Lex McKinley also phoned me today & filled me in on what SKIA is doing. I will have to keep this conversation to myself for the time being though as it is private & confidential. All I will say for now is it was very positive.
We have had no luck in locating Peter Schroeder as yet but we have not given up just yet.
4/18/2007 2:11am, #39
- Join Date
- Aug 2006
- NSW, Australia
Reading the link Sochin gave us, a possible Dr. Peter Schröder was a student of Sensei Hideo Ochi (8th Dan).
Dr. Peter Schröder seems to have taught a 'Torus bio Osterkamp'? as well.
I talking to either of these two people would be a start to tracking Dr. Peter Schröder down.
Additionally, has Mr Lothar Lee shown his Sho-dan, Ni-dan & San-dan certificates? I know the debate is whether he is a Go-Dan, but in his situtation I think he is under to pressure to prove is a dan full stop.
Back to the matters at hand.
I would suggest that both of you (Kumite Junky & Kohai), each sit down and write down everything that you recall Mr Lothar Lee stating to you, and if possible the dates which you think these statements were made on (or rough periods).
If you've seen any flyers in shops, grab one and right the date you did so on it. Any emails you have relating to Mr Lothar Lee, again print them out with headers showing the dates they were sent/recieved. Get all of these documents and put them in a folder in a safe place.
That way, if or should I say when the SKIA makes their civil case ( I suspect that's their plan of action), you can hand over your folder of information to help them. Prehaps provide copies to Sochin or other BS members to assist them in the investigation.
Other options that can be considered, would be contacting the local newspaper, and contacting Blitz magazine. I would suggest that you get an SKIA rep to do so, so that they may present the facts and inform people of the situation. He appears to be be operating through the ignorance of others.
I would refrain from any direct action against Mr Lothar Lee, short of that which personally concerns you (i.e the photos), and instead leave such actions for the SKIA. Such vigilante actions may interfere with or compromise any planned legitimate action taken by the SKIA.
4/18/2007 2:41am, #40
Email went off to a Mr Horst Schroeder, a JKA Shotokan teacher from Hamburg, asking for information on the status of Mr Peter Schroeder.
I mean, that HAS to be worth a shot, right? Same name, same city, same organisation, same style?
Many thanks to Mr McFu for translating my email into German.