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  1. #1

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Ever heard this story? Emin Boztepe vs. a Gracie?

    I was checking out the thread called "Is BJJ a fad?", and it reminded me of this story. I did a search and couldn't find any threads about it, so I thought I would post it here and see what you all thought.

    The story goes like this:

    Back in the day, MMA was not yet very popular. The Gracie family existed, as did Emin Boztepe. There was, what I perceived within this story to be, a rivalry of sorts between the two entities, due primarily to skill levels and other unnamed past events. It came down to the "put up or shut up" phase as both entities agreed to a fight. They did not, however, agree upon the terms.

    The Gracie's wanted to do it for money, and Emin Boztepe wanted to do it for a videotaped copy of the fight - the winner of which was allowed to do whatever they wanted with said tape. The terms were never agreed upon, and the fight never happened.

    End of story. Has anyone ever heard this before, or know anything about its authenticity?

    As a side topic, this story was being related to me in order to emphasize a point. This point was that BJJ is only popular today because of the media exposure it received. If this fight were to have happened, and Emin Boztepe would have won (thereby giving the media spotlight to him instead of to the Gracie's) then Wing Chun would be the "super popular MMA art" today, as opposed to BJJ, which currently holds that title. This is why the other thread I mentioned made me think of this story.

  2. #2
    cyrijl's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    No i have never heard this story. I was under a rock, eating mold, waiting to evolve.
    There is no cheating, there is only jiu-jitsu.

  3. #3
    Scrapper's Avatar
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    I heard about it. They bickered and squabbled over terms and it just never happened.

    Gracie's wanted the fight to be at teh LAPD gym, Boztepe didn't want to fight in a Gracie-friendly venue, money or no money, rules and wahtnot, etc etc.
    And lo, Kano looked down upon the field and saw the multitudes. Amongst them were the disciples of Uesheba who were greatly vexed at his sayings. And Kano spake: "Do not be concerned with the mote in thy neighbor's eye, when verily thou hast a massive stick in thine ass".

    --Scrolls of Bujutsu: Chapter 5 vs 10-14.

  4. #4
    I'd like to leave this world like I came into it: Screaming, naked & covered in someone else's blood supporting member
    Asriel's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Tangent
    As a side topic, this story was being related to me in order to emphasize a point. This point was that BJJ is only popular today because of the media exposure it received. If this fight were to have happened, and Emin Boztepe would have won (thereby giving the media spotlight to him instead of to the Gracie's) then Wing Chun would be the "super popular MMA art" today, as opposed to BJJ, which currently holds that title. This is why the other thread I mentioned made me think of this story.
    The only problem with this statement is that had Emin won, WC would not have become the Super Popular MMA art because it doesn't work in MMA. Some have tried and failed miserably. What gave BJJ it's almost mythical status was Royce cleaning up at UFC1 and winning 3(?) of the following tournaments. Had a WC guy, let's say Emin for argument's sake, done this then WC would be the art that everyone rushed out to study.

    BJJ was tested in a ring against other arts and came out on top. So far, WC has not done this. When Chun Nutriders post on here they are asked time and time again for video evidence of it working against other styles but all that comes back are excuses like "My WC is my master's secret and noone can see it" or "WC is not about fighting, it's about choosing not to fight". Also often heard is the Nutrider claiming that THEY have the real _ing _un and everyone who's ever been documented losing doesn't.

    So to summarise, WC isn't popular in MMA because it sucks.
    " The reason elite level MMAists don't fight with aikido is the same reason elite level swimmers don't swim with their lips." - Virus

    " I shocked him with my skills on the ice becuase Wing Chun is great for hockey fighting." - 'Sifu' Milt Wallace

    "Besides, as you might already know (from Virus, for example) - there's only 1 wing chun and it sucks big time" - Tonuzaba

    "Even when I'm promising mayhem and butt-chicanery, I'm generally posting with a smile on my face." - Sochin101

    "That said, if he blocked my hip on a drop nage, I would extend my leg into a drop tai Otoshi and slam him so hard his parents would die." - MTripp


  5. #5
    Chili Pepper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tangent
    End of story. Has anyone ever heard this before, or know anything about its authenticity?
    Yes, it's true. Best you do a groups.google search in rec.martial-arts, or alt.ufc - all this happened around 1995/96.

    Boztepe challenged IIRC Rorion. The Gracie camp kept offering venues, Boztepe kept refusing them and/or adding conditions. Eventually, when it was obvious that Boztepe was just running his mouth and trying to get some free press, the Gracies dropped it.

  6. #6
    Virus's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    WC is not about fighting,
    They got that part right.

  7. #7
    cyrijl's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    WC is not about fighting,
    We all better hope so.
    There is no cheating, there is only jiu-jitsu.

  8. #8

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    Chunners say: Gracie chickened out.
    Gracielovers say: Emin chickened out.

    Not much to the Emin Question but that.

  9. #9
    I'd like to leave this world like I came into it: Screaming, naked & covered in someone else's blood supporting member
    Asriel's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Has Emin ever put it on the line and fought in MMA? Of course not, he just sits in his Hobbit Hole Chain Punching till the cows come home.
    " The reason elite level MMAists don't fight with aikido is the same reason elite level swimmers don't swim with their lips." - Virus

    " I shocked him with my skills on the ice becuase Wing Chun is great for hockey fighting." - 'Sifu' Milt Wallace

    "Besides, as you might already know (from Virus, for example) - there's only 1 wing chun and it sucks big time" - Tonuzaba

    "Even when I'm promising mayhem and butt-chicanery, I'm generally posting with a smile on my face." - Sochin101

    "That said, if he blocked my hip on a drop nage, I would extend my leg into a drop tai Otoshi and slam him so hard his parents would die." - MTripp


  10. #10
    1bad65's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Here is a link that has transcrips of the letters and faxes exchanged between the parties involved:


    http://www.sherdog.net/forums/showthread.php?t=403865

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