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  1. Ronin.74 is online now

    霍氏八极拳徒弟

    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    2,468

    Posted On:
    4/02/2007 3:00pm


     Style: CMA,Muay Thai ,Yudo,TKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ming Loyalist
    of course there are issues with thinking this way... it's limiting, and by all means i still teach techniques that i don't personally use, or haven't been able to, but i always add the caveat that "i've never been very good at this" or "i have my doubts about this working for me, but you can ask sigung/sifu etc about their experiences with it" and i ALWAYS suggest that students try out strikes on a bag, dummy, sparring partner, etc and see what works for them.

    as far as sifu jason's suggestion that there should be a peer review system, unfortunately there isn't one. and this site doesn't really serve that purpose well either.

    short of requiring all schools to compete in an annual limited rules full contact event, if they want to claim to teach fighting, i don't see a way out of this.
    one problem about the litigious society we live in, is that if when you expose a bullshido artist you are attacking their business and they can sue over that. we're pretty careful about how we approach that on this site, but it leads to more drama and long legal battles, as the worst offenders have a serious financial incentive to keep up their business.

    i wish we could force them to admit to being "entertainment" as happened to the world wrestling federation, who had to change their name to world wrestling entertainment when they couldn't prove that they were a real sport because the matches are obviously faked.

    all i can do as an instructor is to try to hold myself to the highest standards possible and to be as honest with myself and my students as possible. we can always hope that leading by example will help, but to be honest that sort of approach doesn't have a great track record in general.
    I would really like to something like that happen. A FC tournament requiring Kung Fu practioners to use the system that they claim is good for self defense, not a bunch of guys showing up claiming different styles then all looking like San Shou.
  2. new2bjj is offline

    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    1,935

    Posted On:
    4/02/2007 3:10pm


     Style: TKD, MT, KEMPO

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin.74
    I would really like to something like that happen. A FC tournament requiring Kung Fu practioners to use the system that they claim is good for self defense, not a bunch of guys showing up claiming different styles then all looking like San Shou.
    I think everything is going to look like San Shou/Muay Thai/Kickboxing. All that stuff will start to fall by the wayside, and may be only preserved for "Cultural" reasons, like a tribal dance, etc. Think about it, the Chinese Military trains San Shou, because they don't have time to **** around with a bunch of forms. I do like watching forms, as demonstrations of a sort of idealized technique, and there is a lot to be said about how athletic a wu shu player is, like I like watching gymnastics.
  3. Ming Loyalist is offline
    Ming Loyalist's Avatar

    solves problems with violence

    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    4,288

    Posted On:
    4/02/2007 3:11pm

    supporting member
     Style: Judo, Hung Family Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin.74
    I would really like to something like that happen. A FC tournament requiring Kung Fu practioners to use the system that they claim is good for self defense, not a bunch of guys showing up claiming different styles then all looking like San Shou.
    i would love to see this as well, but it's not practical.

    it can be done within a federation, it can be done within a school and it's offshoots, but there is no way to do that for all "kung fu"

    as for everything looking like san shou, i think that is a problem with the expectations of the viewer more than the arts themselves.

    as i have said many times on this board, if you're watching a serious fighter using the hung ga crane applications in sport fighting you will be disappointed if you expect to see karate kid style one legged stances. i personally see a lot of crane techniques when i watch muay thai, and that has a lot to do with how they defend and how they attack, specifically relating to hip motion and timing.

    i say we should be more concerned that the schools in question actually fight, rather than making demands that their fighting should look like their forms. let their students worry about the applications of the forms, and the validity of forms training, and let's be more worried about judging the result of the training in terms of how their fighters do in competition.
    "Face punches are an essential character building part of a martial art. You don't truly love your children unless you allow them to get punched in the face." - chi-conspiricy
    "When I was a little boy, I had a sailor suit, but it didn't mean I was in the Navy." - Mtripp on the subject of a 5 year old karate black belt
    "Without actual qualifications to be a Zen teacher, your instructor is just another roundeye raping Asian culture for a buck." - Errant108
    "Seriously, who gives a **** what you or Errant think? You're Asian males, everyone just ignores you, unless you're in a krotty movie." - new2bjj
  4. nomamao is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    666

    Posted On:
    4/02/2007 3:39pm


     Style: Hung Ga Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ming Loyalist
    i would love to see this as well, but it's not practical.

    it can be done within a federation, it can be done within a school and it's offshoots, but there is no way to do that for all "kung fu"

    as for everything looking like san shou, i think that is a problem with the expectations of the viewer more than the arts themselves.

    as i have said many times on this board, if you're watching a serious fighter using the hung ga crane applications in sport fighting you will be disappointed if you expect to see karate kid style one legged stances. i personally see a lot of crane techniques when i watch muay thai, and that has a lot to do with how they defend and how they attack, specifically relating to hip motion and timing.

    i say we should be more concerned that the schools in question actually fight, rather than making demands that their fighting should look like their forms. let their students worry about the applications of the forms, and the validity of forms training, and let's be more worried about judging the result of the training in terms of how their fighters do in competition.
    Yeah, if they can throw down, then nobody should complain. At least they are teaching people how to fight.
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