The silly necessity of rank in organized Tae Kwon Do.

**dern** · Posted On: 3/28/2007 5:11pm

I have practiced Tae Kwon Do for nearly a 1/3 of my life, yet after three years of inactivity, I hear that my original dojo shuts down. There, I obtained rank of 1st kyu, which was represented by a red/black belt by some organization called the ITC (I don't even know if they are still around).
Now, only three years after I stopped, I go to a number of local dojos, all of whom deny me the right to keep my rank if I want to train with them. They insist that my period of inactivity has made me too rusty to keep that rank and that I need to be retrained--going through all the crappy contracts and financial issues that I have already done! I put 6 years into Tae Kwon Do, and now they apparently mean nothing! I train to better myself, physically, mentally, and spiritually, but I sure as heck am not doing two-step forms ALL over again just to prove I know what I am doing.
Life happens, and I cannot stick around in one place for too long. Yet, I wish I could carry my martial experience with me and continue elsewhere. But apparently I can't do that in Tae Kwon Do. I have to restart all over again.
Sure I recognize the necessity of rank as a gauge of experience, but for each dojo to be so self-absorbed as to strip me of my rank when I wish to continue my training is bullshido.
What are your thoughts on this? Have any of you experienced similar problems regarding rank when going to new schools?

**ToUnderstand** · Posted On: 3/28/2007 5:48pm

Originally Posted by dern

I have practiced Tae Kwon Do for nearly a 1/3 of my life, yet after three years of inactivity, I hear that my original dojo shuts down. There, I obtained rank of 1st kyu, which was represented by a red/black belt by some organization called the ITC (I don't even know if they are still around).
Now, only three years after I stopped, I go to a number of local dojos, all of whom deny me the right to keep my rank if I want to train with them. They insist that my period of inactivity has made me too rusty to keep that rank and that I need to be retrained--going through all the crappy contracts and financial issues that I have already done! I put 6 years into Tae Kwon Do, and now they apparently mean nothing! I train to better myself, physically, mentally, and spiritually, but I sure as heck am not doing two-step forms ALL over again just to prove I know what I am doing.
Life happens, and I cannot stick around in one place for too long. Yet, I wish I could carry my martial experience with me and continue elsewhere. But apparently I can't do that in Tae Kwon Do. I have to restart all over again.
Sure I recognize the necessity of rank as a gauge of experience, but for each dojo to be so self-absorbed as to strip me of my rank when I wish to continue my training is bullshido.
What are your thoughts on this? Have any of you experienced similar problems regarding rank when going to new schools?

First i would like to ask you this, have you practiced your techniques and forms since leaving your school, after three years of inactivity do you actually think your capable of holding a relatively high rank? I mean three years is a long time and a lot of muscle memory will be gone, which plays a factor with ones technichal abillity period.

EDIT: also i dont really think a school not accepting your rank because you have been inactive for a while is considered bullshido, in fact i would consider the opposite true, but in the end it all is dependent on your technichal abillity.

**new2bjj** · Posted On: 3/28/2007 5:57pm

They want to sell you the rank. Drop the TKD and take up Muay Thai, BJJ, Boxing or something else. Seriously. TKD is basically a competitive sport, so, if you aren't going to compete, and compete within their rule set, why bother. Also, if you really want to compete, it doesn't hurt if you are Korean- that always gets you extra points. From a TKD Black Belt.

**Teh El Macho** · Posted On: 3/28/2007 6:03pm

I think Scrapper had a similar issue in having his black belt in Judo recognized or something after a period of inactivity. All I can say it's that it fucking sucks.

Good luck.

**ToUnderstand** · Posted On: 3/28/2007 6:10pm

Originally Posted by new2bjj

They want to sell you the rank. Drop the TKD and take up Muay Thai, BJJ, Boxing or something else. Seriously. TKD is basically a competitive sport, so, if you aren't going to compete, and compete within their rule set, why bother. Also, if you really want to compete, it doesn't hurt if you are Korean- that always gets you extra points. From a TKD Black Belt.

Damn, and i thought all my points were due to my super uber duper korean kicking powers not judges giving me points due to my ethnicity!

**oldman34** · Posted On: 3/28/2007 6:12pm

Originally Posted by new2bjj

. TKD is basically a competitive sport, so, if you aren't going to compete, and compete within their rule set, why bother. .

Wrong

Wrong

and

Wrong.

As for the belt thing. Did they ask you to work out with them once or twice to maybe evaluate your skill level?

Do you have certificates of rank from your other school?

**glad2bhere** · Posted On: 3/28/2007 6:16pm

Sorry, Dern, but your issues with rank seem a little skewed one way or the other. In reading your post it seems that rank is a good thing to you as long as you get the regard that you think you have coming.

I think you would agree that anyone else who participated in an activity an then went inactive for a while would have lost some of their competence and might not reasonably expect to get the same rank. It seems like only in the MA does one expect to work towards a rank, achieve that rank and have it remain inviolate for the rest of their days. Degrees have Continuing Education. Professions have licensure and re-licensure. Trades have refreshment courses. But Martial arts have a single test and you are the new rank until you die-- even if you never do another technique. And SOME arts don't even have testing! The least a rank could require is some sort of proficiency in competiton even if its only point-fighting, right? But they don't.

The way I see it people want rank, even though they will tell you its a stupid system. They STILL want it.

The way I see it, people want rank to mean something, but not if it means too much hard work to earn it.

The way I see it, people want to keep their rank forever and a day, but not enough to be required to be recertified on a regular basis.

In other words, just like in everything else, Humans want the up-side without the downside and Life just doesn't work that way. FWIW.

Best Wishes,

Bruce

***DerAuslander*** · Posted On: 3/28/2007 6:48pm

Originally Posted by dern

There, I obtained rank of 1st kyu, which was represented by a red/black belt by some organization called the ITC (I don't even know if they are still around).

There are no Kyu ranks in Taegwondo. There are kyu ranks in Karate.

Originally Posted by dern

Now, only three years after I stopped, I go to a number of local dojos, all of whom deny me the right to keep my rank if I want to train with them. They insist that my period of inactivity has made me too rusty to keep that rank and that I need to be retrained--going through all the crappy contracts and financial issues that I have already done! I put 6 years into Tae Kwon Do, and now they apparently mean nothing! I train to better myself, physically, mentally, and spiritually, but I sure as heck am not doing two-step forms ALL over again just to prove I know what I am doing.
Life happens, and I cannot stick around in one place for too long. Yet, I wish I could carry my martial experience with me and continue elsewhere. But apparently I can't do that in Tae Kwon Do. I have to restart all over again.
Sure I recognize the necessity of rank as a gauge of experience, but for each dojo to be so self-absorbed as to strip me of my rank when I wish to continue my training is bullshido.
What are your thoughts on this? Have any of you experienced similar problems regarding rank when going to new schools?

There is very little reason for anyone to accept your rank outside of your style and organization. Requirements for gaining rank differ from org to org, and you may not be up to their standards, especially after your absence. You might not be trained in the same skill sets they require as well.:XXspam:

**dern** · Posted On: 3/28/2007 9:07pm

No, I have not trained in the forms since I quit, but since I am at the rank where you have to relearned all of them to gain black-belt anyway, I find redoing it all from white belt to be a waste of time and lots of money.

And as for the muscle memory thing, I trained when I was around six to twelve years old, when your brain is still in its major developing stages. I still retain all of my old habits in kicking and punching and movement, to the extent that a Tae Kwon Do instructior regonized my ability before I even mentioned my background. All I lost were the forms.

I mentioned the 1st kyu since I was exactly one rank from black belt, since the belt orders differ from school-to-school. Tae Kwon Do is basically pseudo-karate anyway. I might as well mention the ranking in the original.

And no, I never got the chance to prove myself on the mat. They said that if I signed up I would sign up from the beginning.

By the way, these dojos were not simply Tae Kwon Do dojos, they did other martial arts that I wanted to practice, such as kickboxing and karate. I just felt that I would like to start again and finish up to get black belt. My biggest regret was never going all the way with it.

Having a black-belt in Tae Kwon Do is something that I want to complete because I hate leaving things undone right at the end and because the black belt rank carries more respect and voice than 1st kyu (or kwon or whatever the psuedo-chinese decide to screw it up with). I figured that if I were to open a martial arts school having the black belt in Tae Kwon Do would greatly help my credability and would help define the overall arts I am teaching.

For example, if I am both black-belt in Aikido and Tae Kwon Do, then it would be understandable if I gave more focus to atemi-waza in my Aikido training, for example. And this would be okay since I have the black-belt in Tae Kwon Do, not just something I decided to throw in just for the heck of it.

And, of course, it does feel good to say "Yo, I'm a BLACK BELT" in something, especially when your training did NOT come from a Mcdojo. Makes it sound more genuine than, "Yo I'm onerankawayfromblackbeltsored/blackbelt or whatever."

But my personal needs aside, I find it unfair that I payed hundreds of dollars doing years of this art and when I wish to return I am told that I have to start all over. There is no progress in this. It's like being told to go algebra again after you have completed calculus, but stopped for a few years. All you need is a brush-up, not a complete make-over!

**new2bjj** · Posted On: 3/28/2007 9:15pm

Originally Posted by oldman34

Wrong

Wrong

and

Wrong.

As for the belt thing. Did they ask you to work out with them once or twice to maybe evaluate your skill level?

Do you have certificates of rank from your other school?

Actually, I'm right on the point that TKD, as it is practised today, is primarily a sport. If you are taking it for self defense, there are much better options, such as the BJJ you are taking now. I have done TKD on and off since 1975, and they have been trying to promote it as an Olympic Sport, like, forever, it would seem. I guess you could do it like tennis, sort of as a rec thing....