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  1. Cullion is offline
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    Everybody was Kung Fu fighting

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    Posted On:
    4/03/2007 9:13am

    supporting member
     Style: Tai Chi

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    What do you want to know ?
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  2. Cullion is offline
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    Everybody was Kung Fu fighting

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    Posted On:
    4/03/2007 9:22am

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     Style: Tai Chi

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Correct me if I'm wrong Lee, but I believe that the HK TCC practitioner you referred to who won southeast asian full contact championships and then went on to train several champions of the same was Cheng Tin Hung.

    He was not actually a chen style practitioner, but his background was a mix of TCC learned from an uncle (not one of the major familly lineages) and Wu style. He started teaching after about 4 years of training. Some people think of his style as 'southeast asian or Hong Kong Wu style', but he called it 'Wudang' Tai Chi to diffferentiate what he did from any of the major family styles. AIUI he also had some early Hung Gar training.

    We don't have any chen-style fast movements in our hand form and AIUI the way it is done is closest to Wu.

    The fast training is in the 'live' work and the conditioning.
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  3. Cullion is offline
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    Everybody was Kung Fu fighting

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    Posted On:
    4/03/2007 9:25am

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     Style: Tai Chi

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    TCC has been shown many times to work fine in a full contact competitive setting, you just don't get it by only doing forms and slow gentle callisthenics.
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  4. lee is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/03/2007 11:40am


     Style: pak mei

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    l only remember from reputation that l was told by my sifu that he took no students who wanted to just do old mans excercise . hed send them away. l just found the old picture and the guy who won the championship was named chen . it was in the 70s. l was doing pak mei at the time as l still do so l didnt follow up with what they did. what you say is probably true as years ago l had a freind who was older than me who was the head instuctor of chinese free masons in toronto chinatown. he told me that most tai chi practioners had been seniors in other arts before learning the one that made them famous. l qalways took his word for that as he was one of lum sai wings tode and a senior. l also had a freind who used to regularly beat up his brother when he got out of hand and he also did tai chi . mine is different than whats taught here in the movements are smaller and more circular . l was lucky enough to meet a member of the chen family once in a park we trained in years ago he showed me a set from his village . it was quite different than l see being taught to the public. l must say it was very impressive and he had both speed and power. unfortunately he was only visiting . he didnt teach it to me just showed. he informed me that they just call it chen boxing not tai chi .
  5. wackamole is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/03/2007 11:59am


     Style: etc

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by lee
    what you say is probably true as years ago l had a freind who was older than me who was the head instuctor of chinese free masons in toronto chinatown. he told me that most tai chi practioners had been seniors in other arts before learning the one that made them famous.
    Lee,

    I think this is a good point. One of the things about "structure" IMHO (I'm a beginner so take all this with a grain of salt) is that you can build it in different ways. It's probably easier to build it through one of the less complex styles like white crane or long fist, and then eventually change the frame to something more like taiji. That is, unless you have access to the way the Chen people develop their body right from the start.

    You know who Hong Yixiang was? He got famous for teaching the "internal" stuff like xingyi, bagua and taiji, but he started as a white crane guy. He also taught the crane sets to his students as basic conditioning.

    One of the problems with "internal" martial arts I think is when the teacher built his body through something else, and then later started only doing and teaching taiji. This is when you see a situation where the students never get it.

    It doesn't matter that a person drops the movements or the strategy of his earlier training, because _the body you built and the structure you built in it_ doesn't magically change the moment you stop one style and start another.
  6. lee is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/03/2007 12:26pm


     Style: pak mei

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    l was told by a teacher once that the old wu and chen were related . that one family member went to the chen village to learn it to bring it back to l think a brother (not sure ) then that one got thinking he wasnt being taught everything and went himself to be taught. also l think if you get someone who can teach tai chi fist the difference is you start internal at one end of a circle soft and slow and end up with it being hard and fast at the other end so both internal and external end up eventualy at the same spot . most think pak mei is a external its not ,its internal our high sets are done with speed , ging and relaxed in a controiled sense . learning the tai chi was a asset to me in learning pak mei so its not ever been wasted time and sometimes l found mixing it when l fought . because both is in close . a freind teaches wing chun one of the few l know who can really fight when we were all younger when he saw me do it once called it whitebrow tai chi lol
  7. meataxe is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/03/2007 2:08pm


     Style: Wu style tcc+bjj

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by lee
    l was told by a teacher once that the old wu and chen were related . that one family member went to the chen village to learn it to bring it back to l think a brother (not sure ) then that one got thinking he wasnt being taught everything and went himself to be taught. also l think if you get someone who can teach tai chi fist the difference is you start internal at one end of a circle soft and slow and end up with it being hard and fast at the other end so both internal and external end up eventualy at the same spot . most think pak mei is a external its not ,its internal our high sets are done with speed , ging and relaxed in a controiled sense . learning the tai chi was a asset to me in learning pak mei so its not ever been wasted time and sometimes l found mixing it when l fought . because both is in close . a freind teaches wing chun one of the few l know who can really fight when we were all younger when he saw me do it once called it whitebrow tai chi lol
    There may be confusion of the two different Wu styles. They are the same in English, but different characters and slightly different pronunciation in Chinese. The Wu style influenced by Chen style was the Wu (武) or Wu/Hao (武/郝) of Wu Yu-hsiang (武禹襄). The Wu style that Chen Ting Hung learned was the Wu (吳) style of Wu Chien Chuan (吳鑑泉). This Wu (吳) is the same style I study.
    Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices.
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  8. meataxe is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/03/2007 2:16pm


     Style: Wu style tcc+bjj

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Back on the topic of TCC as a fighting art... One criticism I have heard a number of times is that "TCC fighting looks like bad kickboxing".

    One of the reasons I could think of is obviously bad instruction leading to bad technique. The other is that TCC does not feature flashy techniques or a lot of moves that would be really distinctive. As I see it, TCC is more about principles than about technique. If there was something to visually differentiate TCC, I think it would be that the TCC fighter would appear not to be working as hard. Think of any of todays fighters that seem to be more relaxed in the ring and are able to negate their opponents effort without working too hard.
    Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices.
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  9. Cuchulain is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/03/2007 2:22pm


     Style: Sanda/Taijiquan *Hiatus*

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by meataxe
    Back on the topic of TCC as a fighting art... One criticism I have heard a number of times is that "TCC fighting looks like bad kickboxing".

    One of the reasons I could think of is obviously bad instruction leading to bad technique. The other is that TCC does not feature flashy techniques or a lot of moves that would be really distinctive. As I see it, TCC is more about principles than about technique. If there was something to visually differentiate TCC, I think it would be that the TCC fighter would appear not to be working as hard. Think of any of todays fighters that seem to be more relaxed in the ring and are able to negate their opponents effort without working too hard.
    IMO a TCC practitioner should not go into a fight punching and kicking at all. It's pretty clear that all the principles and applications lend themselves to throws and takedowns and not to strikes.
    Last edited by Cuchulain; 4/03/2007 2:23pm at . Reason: typo
  10. meataxe is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/03/2007 2:29pm


     Style: Wu style tcc+bjj

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by seanyseanybean
    IMO a TCC practitioner should not go into a fight punching and kicking at all. It's pretty clear that all the principles and applications lend themselves to throws and takedowns and not to strikes.
    Maybe it depends on the style of TCC? In our school we tend to focus more on grappling, but there is plenty in our style for striking and dealing with strikes. We have kicks too, but no high kicks--everything is pretty much below the belt.
    Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices.
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