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  1. Dochter is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/17/2003 9:26pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    About a month ago I posted the following workout (which has a few mistakes, see the original thread for corrections). Since that time I've gone through the weight lifting workout rotation 1.5 times and figured I'd post some comments. To start off here is the work out:


    Pretty much since I've been on this forum and other's I've been trying to find out about different weight lifting options for martial artists. As many of you know one of my priorities had been to maintain the strength I gained prior to joining MA's. One avenue I've tried to follow was to determine what pro-mma fighters do; unfortunately there has been a serious lack of this sort of information.

    In the September 2003 issue of Muscle and Fitness the cover story concerns the UFC and also details some of Frank Mir's fitness routine. I'll try and post a review of the article as a whole later but here is his fitness regime (minus ma work):

    Cardio (not including sparring):

    Run 2-4 miles, 2-3 times a week followed by 5-10 40 yard dashes (sounds like an american football regime)

    Lifting: 4 Days a week, divided into Push, pull, legs and isolate groups.

    Day 1 Push
    Exercise_______________Sets__________Reps
    Pushups as a warm up
    Incline Bench press 3 5-6
    Military Press (Forgot this one first draft) 3 5-6
    Arnold Press 3 5-6
    One-Arm Dumbell Chest press 3 5-6
    Close-Grip Bench Press 3 12-15
    Lying French Press 3 12-15

    Day 2 Pull
    Exercise_______________Sets__________Reps
    Pull-Up* 4 10
    Lat Pulldown 3 15
    Standard Deadlift** 4 5-6
    Bent-Over Row 3-5 5-6
    Barbell Shrug 3 5-6
    Barbell Curl 3 12-15

    *2 sets hands facing forward, 2 sets reverse, basically pull and chinups
    **1st set warm-up with light weight

    Day 3 Legs
    Exercise_______________Sets__________Reps
    Barbell Squat* 3 5-6
    Walking Lunge** 3 5-6
    One-Leg Stiff_Legged 3 5-6
    Dumbell Deadlift

    *Jumps up and down off a bench
    **Varies direction of lunges, sideways, forward and back

    Day 4 Isolation
    Works particular muscle groups based on their soreness (and hence lack of comparable strength) in his gross-action lifts. Does hip-flexor, bi and tri work etc.

    Now as a bit of background I really haven't been able to do much lifting for about the last two months for a number of reasons that are not simple excuses. As a result I have lost a good amount of strength and worse have ended up with pretty crappy endurance. This second effect is of direct importance to this particular workout.

    I spent the first go through of this workout trying to determine what sorts of weight I ought to be using on any one of the exercises. This was actually a bit of a pain (and still is) because I've spent most of the last three years doing sets of ten. Sets of 5 to 6 entail a pretty big revamping of weight progression.

    I also spent this first week testing out some of the different exercises. .Among other things Iíve never done Arnold presses. Also, and more importantly, due to back surgery and chronic back problems I haven't done standard squats or dead lifts in about 3 years. For this reason these exercises show particularly pathetic numbers due to my paranoia about re-injury. If I stick with this workout scheme I'll probably replace them down the road. Anyway here are the breakdowns for my second week's "push" and "pull" workouts (all weights are English you metric whores):

    Day 1 Push
    Exercise_______________Sets__________Reps
    Pushups as a warm up 2*35
    Incline Bench press 10*135 10*225 6*255 6*275
    Military press (dumbbells) 10*70ís 8*80ís 7*90ís
    Arnold Press 10*40ís 6*50ís 5*60ís
    One-Arm Dumbbell Chest press* 6*80ís 6*90ís 5*90ís
    Close-Grip Bench Press 15*135 12*135 10*135
    Lying French Press 15*45 13*165 11*65

    *These take a little bit of getting used to.

    Day 2 Pull
    Exercise_______________Sets__________Reps
    Pull-Up* 4 sets of 10
    Lat Pulldowns 13*140 15*140 15*140
    Standard Deadlift 6*135 6*185 6*205 6*235
    Bent-Over Row** 6*135 (3 plates) 6*135 6*135 6*90
    Barbell Shrug 6*225 6*245 6*275 10*135
    Barbell Curl*** 15*65 10*75 10*85

    *I did these as all regular pull-ups
    **Iím working under the assumption this is where youíre lying at around a 45 degree angle with a wide grip essentially attached to a barbell. Weights for this are simply those added, no idea what the bar weight was.
    ***These weights arenít super impressive but I do them with as close to no swinging as possible.



    The first comment I have to make about all this is: Christ I need to get serious about lifting again, secondly being at a brand new gym (for me) is a pain when you need a spot.

    As an actual review of the workout:

    *Proís*
    Fucking exhausting, there is no doubt youíve worked out hard after this. The final exercises on each day (skull crushers and barbell curls) were damn hard to get through even at really low weights. I think this will do a lot for the muscular endurance of anyone.

    I really like the mix of low and high rep sets for gross motor vs. axiallary muscle groups. I think this will help promote muscle growth and do a lot to promote anaerobic endurance, a hard combo to get.

    Provides better recovery times overall. That is when compared to my previous splitting u of individual muscle groups.


    *Conís*
    Iím still not entirely sold on splitting into complementary muscle groups. It is my standard bias but I feel it leaves some muscle groups (primarily arms) shortchanged.

    Iím personally having a hard time getting the weights right for the rep counts but that will come with time.

    I think there is a little too much emphasis on shoulders in the ďpushĒ section which results in my doing flat bench (pecs) and dips (tris) on the ďisolationĒ day.

    The biggest problem I have is the time the workouts take. Between finding spotters when needed and just the overall high number of exercises done each workout it took me over an hour (~75 min) for each workout. Iíve been adhering to the school of thought that you ought to be able to do a workout in 45-50 minutes. This probably wasnít just me since I donít know anyone at the gym Iím now at and so didnít spend anytime blabbing.



    Overall I plan to continue with this workout for the next little while, at least until I regain some semblance of being in shape. I think its overall a good setup and is easily modified (for me Iíll replace squats with sled presses) if needed. If youíre not ever planning on becoming a pro-anything it is probably quite good for awhile but at some point youíll probably want to split by muscle groups. I think gains are better made in this fashion and most of us probably donít have the recovery concerns someone like Mir has.

    Hopefully this has been of some help or interest and let me know if you want opinions on an other aspects (I petered out towards the end of all this writing).





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    My single chopstick is bad at serving soup, cutting steaks and basting roasts and chickens. Besides that it owns.
  2. RealMAs is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/18/2003 9:42pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    IMHO, power lifting or Olympic weight lifting is better suited for the MA than the body building type of routine.
  3. Dochter is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/18/2003 10:33pm

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     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Well since this isn't a bodybuilding type routine....

    Thanks for playing

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    My single chopstick is bad at serving soup, cutting steaks and basting roasts and chickens. Besides that it owns.
  4. RealMAs is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/18/2003 11:30pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Well since this isn't a bodybuilding type routine....
    True, but it isnít Olympic or power lifting either, somewhere in-between Iíd say. I think isolation exercises like the French press are actually counter productive.
  5. Pandinha is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/19/2003 12:38am

    supporting memberhall of famestaff
     Style: Muay Thai & BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    How do you work in staying limber for rolling?



    ==================
    "When we go to the ground, you are in my world. The ground is the ocean, I am the shark, and most people don't even know how to swim." RCJ Machado
    Quote Originally Posted by Sifu Rudy Abel
    "Just what makes a pure grappler think he can survive with an experienced striker. Especially if that striker isn't following any particular rule set and is well aware of what the grapplers strategies are".
  6. RealMAs is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/19/2003 12:52am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    How do you work in staying limber for rolling?
    Stretching, preferably stoned. Seriously I think I have good flexibility in part to marijuana.
  7. Dochter is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/19/2003 2:06am

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If you don't neglect your stretching (which I do) there is no reason why your flexibility and speed would be compromised by weightlifting, whether you're working towards these things for grappling striking or both.

    As for isolation exercises being detrimental I'd tend to disagree, particularly for things like arms, which are often not hit as hard as would be desired in strictly compound exercises. Remember Olympic lifting is still targeting specific exercises and goals. These DO NOT exactly equate to those goal a MA'ist may have.

    As an additional note for supplemental arm workouts I know for a fact that having quite strong biceps can give you the extra time to defend arm bars in many situations.


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    My single chopstick is bad at serving soup, cutting steaks and basting roasts and chickens. Besides that it owns.
  8. Dochter is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/19/2003 2:21am

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Power lifting = solely bench, squat and deadlift for one rep maxes

    Olympic lifting = solely power cleans and power snatch for one rep maxes.

    Frankly I'd say beyond the fact that these are mainly compound exercises there is little in working out towards these ends that is good for an MA.

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    My single chopstick is bad at serving soup, cutting steaks and basting roasts and chickens. Besides that it owns.
  9. Dochter is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/19/2003 2:28am

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If there were any other specific sort of workout program beyond that of actual MA'ists like Mir that I would look to for developing my own it would be that of a linebacker, not an olymic lifter.

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    My single chopstick is bad at serving soup, cutting steaks and basting roasts and chickens. Besides that it owns.
  10. OldSchoolKungFuWarrior is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/19/2003 2:33am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    How about pushups?
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