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  1. truepwrz is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/20/2007 8:14pm


     Style: Boxing

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    front squats vs back squats, sit ups vs crunches

    the title is self explained, front and back squats dont look that much different to but but for some reasons back squats kinda hurt my back what is the difference which is better, crunches and sit ups i perfer crunches because its easier just want to know which is better
  2. new2bjj is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/20/2007 9:17pm


     Style: TKD, MT, KEMPO

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm no expert, but if an exercise hurts you, it's bad for YOU. Just because someone else can do 100's of situps doesn't mean you should. Go to Stadion.com- tons of free info. If you can do several 100 crunches in a workout, than sit ups should be no problem. Its kind of like walking than running, then sprinting, etc. My understanding, which I learned to late, is that you should exhaust the easy exercises- outperform them- then step up to the harder ones. Example ( a personal one) Many people used to learn the spinning hook kick back in the 1970's, and this damaged their ability to correctly perform the spinning back kick- they followed through and around too much, instead of shooting straight back. Because bruce lee did the spink hook kick, a lot of us tried to master that technique out of order, when you should learn the spin back kick first. If squats hurt your back, your stomach muscles are weak- back off the weight- can you do 100 to 200 boadyweight squats? If you can only do, say 50, you need to get up to at least 100, same with the crunches.
  3. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/20/2007 9:28pm

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    -- EDIT --

    I'm going back to edit my post right at the top for people to see. Just in case, you cannot use the same weight when you do squats all the way down as when you stop with quads parallel to the floor. Doing so will **** you up. Res Judicata brought that good point here. This is a good point, and please keep that in mind while you read the rest of the thread. Thanks.


    Quote Originally Posted by truepwrz
    the title is self explained, front and back squats dont look that much different to but but for some reasons back squats kinda hurt my back what is the difference which is better, crunches and sit ups i perfer crunches because its easier just want to know which is better
    I'm going to write a long ass post, just for you. So pay attention and read it. I want you to understand the differences, but most important of all, I want you to train safe. Don't goof around.

    Anyways, back to the topic. First things first. Crunches are considered better exercises than sit ups. However, what do you mean that you find them easier than sit-ups?

    Second thing, I'm starting to worry about you doing squats of any type. Really, what the heck are you doing with squats that are hurting your back? You are using a very poor form, or you are using too much weight, or you simply have a craptacularly weak core. I'm going to come back to this later.

    This is a regular (full) squat:


    And this is a front squat:


    The only thing that makes them similar is that you have a weight on top of you, and that you go down and then up. But that's it. They are different animals.

    Full squats target the gluteus maximus. The muscles that assist in this movement (the synergists) are the quadriceps or quads (the set of muscles that are in the front of your upper legs running from the hip down to your knees). The main stabilizers for this exercise are the hamstrings, the erector spinae (a muscle that runs from your neck to your tail bone parallel to your spine), and your abs.

    Front squats, on the other hand, target the quadriceps and uses the gluteus as the synergist. That is, the roles are reversed. Full squats target your gluteus and uses the quadriceps, whereas front squats target the quadriceps and uses the glutes.

    Just as full squats, front squats uses the hamstrings, the erector spinae and your abs as stabilizers. But pay attention to the next detail.

    Frontl squats also recruits the following muscles, with full squats do not:

    1. deltoids (the muscles in your shoulders)
    2. your pectoralis (the muscles in your chest)
    3. your trapezius (the muscles running from your neck to your shoulders and over/down your shoulder blades)


    This makes front squats a more complete exercise than full squats. Does this mean you should only do front squats? Nope. Not really. The best thing is to do both, but if time is short, I'd choose front squats over full squats. There is a reason front squats are favored by judoka and wrestlers.

    credits: the animated gifs are from http://www.exrx.net


    -- EDIT --

    I forgot to mention, no matter what type of squats you do, you want to keep your back straight. That is no arching backwards and no bending forwards. One easy tip to keep your back straight is to keep your chin up during the reps, looking straight and up, never down.

    With the full squat, you have to bend forwards (as in the animated picture), BUT you bend forwards at the hip, never from the back.
    Last edited by Teh El Macho; 3/22/2007 2:05pm at .
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
  4. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/20/2007 9:39pm

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    PART TWO OF LONG-ASS POST

    truepwz, if you are having problems with squats, most likely it's due to bad form, excessive weight, or perhaps you have a weak back and abdominals.

    My suggestion (and some people may disagree) is that you stop doing squats for the time being (or at least until you get one of your local bullies to show you the correct way to do them.)

    If you have dumbells, you may want to try dumbell front squats. See the pics below:




    Never mind that the hot-looking lady is using kettlebells - you can use dumbells as well. At all times keep your back straight as in the picture below:


    I believe this exercise is safer for the time being. Go easy first and concentrate on good form, starting perhaps with a weight that allows you to do between 15 and 20 reps. After a few weeks, increase the weight and begin to work in the range of 10-15 reps. And later, use a weight that lets you do no more than 12 reps.

    At the same time, work on your abdominals and on your lower back. Crunches, crunches, crunches. You should aim to do about a hundred a day. That's a good way to work your abs. Never grab your neck and never pull it.

    Also, work your lower back. If you can get a stability ball to do back hyperextensions (see link), that will be great. If not, you can do them flat on the floor, belly down.

    http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/...extension.html


    I think you should consider working on those areas before doing any weight lifting. Take my advise and do something involving bodyweights, including

    - ab crunches
    - push ups
    - back hyperextensions

    Mix those up with dumbell front squats, and you'll be on your safe road for squats and stuff like that.

    One simple routine you can use to increase your strenght could be the following:

    -- 50 ab crunches
    -- 30 push ups
    -- 10 back hyper extensions
    -- 10 dumbell front squats

    Take 1 minute break and repeat 3 to 5 times (no breaks between the individual exercises). Do that everyday, or every other day, and I can guarantee you, you will strenghten your core very soon in a safe manner.

    credits: the hot-looking lady in the picture is Lauren Brooks, and the pictures are originally from the online article at http://www.stumptuous.com/cms/displa...le.php?aid=132
    The animated gif is from http://www.exrx.net
    Last edited by Teh El Macho; 3/20/2007 9:53pm at .
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
  5. antman is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/20/2007 9:45pm


     Style: Silat, New to Hsing- Yi

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The hell you mean never mind.
    "Its not important to be strong, its just important not to be weak."
  6. adouglasmhor is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/21/2007 9:20am


     Style: Les Mills Bodycombat™

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    Can you do a similar reply for Hack Squats please Boss, ie muscle groups used etc.?
  7. Mr. Mantis is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/21/2007 11:55am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kung Fu

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    That Stumptous website is TOTALLY FUCKING AWESOME.
    “We are surrounded by warships and don’t have time to talk. Please pray for us.” — One Somali Pirate.
  8. Asriel is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/21/2007 12:09pm

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     Style: Muay Thai (BJJ hiatus)

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    El Macho, what would you say is wrong if I simply cannot get very low at all doing squats? I just fall backwards every time and I've checked my technique from multiple resources and it seems to be ok.
    " The reason elite level MMAists don't fight with aikido is the same reason elite level swimmers don't swim with their lips." - Virus

    " I shocked him with my skills on the ice becuase Wing Chun is great for hockey fighting." - 'Sifu' Milt Wallace

    "Besides, as you might already know (from Virus, for example) - there's only 1 wing chun and it sucks big time" - Tonuzaba

    "Even when I'm promising mayhem and butt-chicanery, I'm generally posting with a smile on my face." - Sochin101

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  9. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/21/2007 1:02pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Mantis
    That Stumptous website is TOTALLY FUCKING AWESOME.
    Absolutely kick ass. I like to give that site to girls who always wonder if they can work out beyond aerobics. :toothy12:

    Quote Originally Posted by adouglasmhor
    Can you do a similar reply for Hack Squats please Boss, ie muscle groups used etc.?
    No prob dude, just gimme a couple of hours. I'm getting pounded at work :tongue6:

    Quote Originally Posted by Asriel
    El Macho, what would you say is wrong if I simply cannot get very low at all doing squats? I just fall backwards every time and I've checked my technique from multiple resources and it seems to be ok.
    Hmmm, my sister Aura had that type of problems with squats, and she blamed it on her knees. It could very well be weak knees, but other things may be at play.

    Can you go all the way down using only your bodyweight (with both torso leaning forwards and straight up as in this picture?

    If you cannot lower down with your bodyweight, I would blame it on dorsiflexion inflexibility alone. Your tibialis (the shins) are too weak and inflexible. As a result knees are inhibited from flexing enough to lower your body, putting your hip and lower back at risk.

    The solution involves stretching your tibialis (see link) as well as your calves. This type of stretching should also involve strenghtening the tibialis (for example, by doing some form of reverse calf raises.)

    If you can lower yourself using your own bodyweight BUT CANNOT with weights, then I'd suspect not only dorsiflexion inflexibility, but also inflexibility (and perhaps weakness or imbalance) in your glutes, and some sort of muscular imbalance/inflexibility in your vastus medialis (the muscle that keeps your kneecap in place) and your hamstrings.

    BTW, this is the vastus medialis (and all the other muscles in the leg)... courtesy of wiki:


    Thus, in addition to increase the strenght and flexibility of your ankles, you should make sure you stretch your glutes, hamstrings, quads and hip flexors. Do more lunges, single-leg standing leg curls and single-leg leg extensions (to strenghten the vastus medialis).

    BTW, I'm only summarizing what's on http://www.exrx.net , plus regurgitating stuff I've learned by trial and error - I'm no expert on the subject, I just like doing this.
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
  10. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/21/2007 1:17pm

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     Style: creonte on hiatus

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    truepwrz, check your PM :eng101:
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
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