what...? I write a 1000word essay and nobody has anything to say? I seem like the only one on topic but nobody cares. :( . A sad day for bullshido .
Anyone else has any personal experiences to share?
If anybody's like me, I just lost interest in the tangeant the discussion had took and skipped right through your post :laughing9
Originally Posted by GrapplerGabE
Quite interresting, but sparring only from green onwards is quite weaksauce, no matter the quality of the instruction or the art. That you got schooled by a guy who only had a few classes in Judo while you were an Orange belt is a good testament to that.
My opinion and advice, from reading your post, would be that sadly, outside of the relationships you might have made there and in a pure MA meaning, you have lost your time and it would be better to steer away from this chain of Dojos, whether they be Mc or not will be decided by the jury.
And i don't have kids, so I won't dare give my opinion on thread 1.2.
First post here so go easy.
I'm a personal student of Simon Rimmington, Clarke's right-hand man.
I don't have the contacts or knowledge to refute the claims that Bob falsified grades etc and created the entire syllabus from magic fairy dust. Indeed I've never even met the man.
I do however have the respect Simon has for Bob to go on. Anyone that has ever met Simon will tell you that he's the real deal and in 20+ years of off and on martial arts experience, I've never met anyone like him.
His technique is solid and the speed at which he can move is scary considering he is such a big bloke.
Pseudo hero-worship aside, Simon has very little time for cowboys and a very black and white outlook to life. If he thought for one minute that his entire repertoire was bollocks he'd be long gone.
At least once per month the man is somewhere in the world, giving seminars to other Ju-Jitsu associations and national armed forces. If both he and his style was full of ****, I'd hardly think that would be the case. I'm sure the people that pay him a lot of money for his time have examined his background and not found it wanting. Especially considering he gets asked to come back regularly.
Sensei Rimmington has also done a lot of top-level professional bodyguard and security work for a lot of very important people, including A & B-list celebrities.
As to the training itself, there is very little time left in the classes for work on other aspects of the style outside of your immediate syllabus. The system is meant to build on itself as you progress through the grades. i.e. that bog standard basic hip throw you learnt as a yellow belt grunt becomes the linchpin for umpteen more advanced techniques. You can't run till you can walk.
Yes it would be nice if we could spend a little more time in class doing atemi in all of its permutations, but a look thorugh the syllabus at any given stage will you show you the building blocks of striking incorporated into combination techniques. Most average classes are 1hr long. If people aren't happy with the power of their side thrust kick, or think their jab and right hook combo could use some work, then they can show some initiative and get out the drill and the rawlbolts and sort themselves a heavy bag so they can work that **** in any of the other umpteen free hours that they have in a given week. Besides the one or two they spend in class.
As to the effectiveness of the syallabus in t3h str33t, a lot of Simon's senior students work as doormen and they're applying them 4-5 nights per week and not always against helpless drunks or un-trained yobbos. They do quite well.
Too many people come to our classes, piss about for a few months and then bugger off whining about the lack of "aliveness", or the fact that they aren't up there with Ryu and Ken within a short period of time. Regarding aliveness training, you try resisting a hip wheel, or a head, hip & knee throw against a senior grade and he'll just shrug and go, "game on" and proceed to bury you 6 feet through the mats and into the concrete floor. A certain amount of compliancy is necessary in order not to get hurt yourself and also to allow people to get the groove of a technique before you start making it harder for them.
The Ju-Jitsu taught in Simon's classes, whether you think it's "real" or not, is a progressive system that honestly doesn't really open up till you hit 1st dan. Up until that point you're just building a basic repertoire of techniques and as I paraphrased before, "learning to walk".
Most people aren't in it for the long haul though and want instant badass, which is why BJJ & MMA are so popular I think as you can get down and dirty real quick. Not bad-mouthing either by the way, some of Simon's students cross-train and compete in MMA and I have great respect for them and anyone else that trains it. Just saying you can't attend a class for a few months then leave & trash talk it because you weren't an overnight Bruce Lee capable of messing up 6 blokes at once then taking all their gf's home for a victory orgy.
Why is it called Ju Jitsu when it's actually a reverse-engineered creation based on Judo and Karate? Nothing wrong with the latter, but why try to pass it off as one of the original Japanese arts when it's not?
Where in the UK are you?
Originally Posted by Schwarde
I did Taekwondo to black belt level as a teenager (I know, gimme a break - I didn't know any better at the time) and given the similarities between taekwondo and karate basics, I'd have to say there's very little karate in the syllabus. Unless you count the kicking techniques, but they could have been culled from anywhere. There's only really one way to throw a front thrust kick, or a roundhouse.
I'll agree on the Judo though. There's a lot of Judo in there, boxing and a melange of other stuff. Whether that was true at the beginning and it has evolved to its present state through external influences to become almost a MMA hybrid I can't say, as I've only been training with them for 3 years.
The bulk of the techniques remain solid Ju-Jitsu though. From the majority of the throws, locks and immobilizations, which are distinctly un-Judo like & the Atemi Waza. That is, at least they appear to be from what I have been able to gather from reading books and watching instructional videos from all sorts of sources.
Maybe it should be called something else, but Ju-Jitsu seems to fit the bill more than any other title as there isn't enough of other styles incorporated into the syllabus to honestly make it anything else. It is also a recognisable name rather than making one up and calling it something else like, oh, I don't know, Systema? (for instance)
Also, at the end of the day I guess Bob and his senior guys didn't want to be beholden to some bunch of geezers in Japan and get saddled with all the traditionalist baggage that would have stopped them giving students a decent punching repertoire by teaching them boxing techniques, for example.
In the same vein, why did the Gracie's christen BJJ as they did, when it was mostly reverse engineered Judo and wrestling? I'll ask Bob when I ever meet him and let you know :)
Last edited by PaDJW; 6/09/2007 6:14am at .
Which jujitsu style or techniques was it originally based on? I heard something about a previous connection with Hontai Yoshin Ryu. Is that still being taught?
I have no idea. I've heard all sorts. Bob was a student of James Blundell and I hit a brick wall trying to trace his lineage too.
If someone is looking for a bona-fide TJJ club I'd suggest they look elsewhere though. There is no japanese terminology, or bowing to some grainy b&w photos of some white-bearded geezer from Japan. I'm pretty sure they don't teach the jab, cross, hook and uppercut in TJJ either.
I guess there's enough ju-jitsu and judo techniques to use "ju-jitsu" as a catch-all to describe the syllabus and clubs/organisation. Someone more knowledgable than me would have to give the last word on that though, as I'm relatively new to JJ and grappling arts in general.
I spent far too many years wasting my time with TKD and Kung Fu-alikes to venture anything other than a hesitant guess, based on technique comparisons gleaned from TJJ demo videos and some books.
I have heard that Mr Clark was at one time a student of Inoue Sensei, the Soke of the Hontai Yoshin Ryu. This is a legitimate and highly regarded koryu jujitsu system in Japan.
So if he used this as the basis of the WJJF syllabus then I agree that calling it jujitsu is certainly appropriate.
(and BTW, I don't think Inoue has a beard ! ;-) )
Thanks for the info.
Nice to have some idea of a credible Ryu to associate with the syllabus and WJJF in general.
In saying that, Inoue should consider growing a beard. Long white hair, white eyebrows and flowing white beard have long been the hallmark of a true martial arts Grandmaster and adds oodles of credibility! :p
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