World Jujitsu Federation - Not real Jujitsu

**JJCOSSIE** · Posted On: 8/02/2009 8:53pm

Bob Clark was only a 5th Dan when he Left the BJJA Were he Trained at the Lowlands in West Derby,
So were did he get is 6th 7th 8th and 9th Dan From I got My Black Belt from one of his Sensei's and also put my 3 kids in it When it came to Gradings my Wife use to have a fit,
can you Imagine how much it cost me lol, And one of my Children had special needs and could not remember the moves but Guess what he still got his Grade
we all Left Because I went to a BJJ/MMA Class, me a Black Belt got the **** Kicked out of me lol, So after 6 Years with them I woke up and yes it was all about the Money Because my Instructer had to pay Bob Clark A set fee for Gi's and Badges, so my Sensei had to charge extra, one more point, my sensei Was 6th Dan when I was there he left the WJJF and now he is a 8th Dan now 2 years later so all Bullshit

**JJCOSSIE** · Posted On: 8/02/2009 9:14pm

Originally Posted by shaundocaa

I have trained WJJF for about 11 years. The club i have been in is one of best I know and have trained at.
We've gone past the syllabus and applied the techniques to real situations.
Im ready to move on in another martial arts, but not until i can drive :D

I started with a guy both of us white Belts 8 years ago
he is now 4th Dan,
it takes 5 to 7 years to get Black Belt in the The British Ju Jitsu Association,
And when I went to go train at Lowlands in west derby With the BJJA they said I could not were my Black Belt that I got with the WJJF I had to start at the White Belt, because they dont class there grades and never will,
James Blundell would turn in is Grave the way Ju-Jitsu as gone in Liverpool

who have Trained with
Eric Marshall 8th Dan Bugei Ki Ryu Liverpool
John Steadman 8th Dan BJJA
Kenny Blundell 7th Dan BJJA
Terry Parker 9th Dan Jikishin Ju-jitsu/BJJA
Alan Campbell 8th Dan WJJF
Simon Rimmington 7th Dan WJJF
all trained by James Blundell(RIP) at Lowlands BJJA at the same time as Bob Clark

**Nate1481** · Posted On: 8/03/2009 3:55am

Not comming out in defence of the WJJF here, you can see my opinon above & I have since stopped training with them due to the lack of sparing etc., however the BJJA & WJJF have a turbulent past so it all needs a pinch of salt, or it's like taking what the various _ing _un branches say about each other @ face value.

The rumor I got while I was there (years later) involved the split happening after profits went to build a private swimming pool (Ahh drama...)

**Kneedan** · Posted On: 8/06/2009 6:06pm

Originally Posted by Nate1481

Not comming out in defence of the WJJF here, you can see my opinon above & I have since stopped training with them due to the lack of sparing etc., however the BJJA & WJJF have a turbulent past so it all needs a pinch of salt, or it's like taking what the various _ing _un branches say about each other @ face value.

The rumor I got while I was there (years later) involved the split happening after profits went to build a private swimming pool (Ahh drama...)

Profits are profits I guess, but the rumour I've heard is that at least some of the money in question should have gone towards insuring club members against injury. I'm not in a position to call that anything other than a rumour (and I take Nate's point as I've only heard the BJJA side of the argument) but I wonder if this is also what MTripp was alluding to earlier in this thread.

My attempts to find any reliable sources for this on t'interweb have so far drawn a blank. If I do find anything I'll post a link.

**Nate1481** · Posted On: 8/07/2009 3:46am

I can believe the insurance money got farmed off from the fact that some things are no longer insured. We used to spar a bit (older guys said they did more) there used to be sparing on the Dan gradings etc, also removal or 'Dangerous', a double arm full shoulder (Ippon Seoinage) can be risky but for 1st Dan it dosen't seem over the top, it has now been replaced by a hip throw (O Goshi) with an impassable entry.

Best summary of British JJ history I ever got was from a MAP thread(here I think), seemed to be a guy who had been in before the blow up & haden't taken sides. He implied the split originated in personality & who got the money. The McDojoishness of the WJJF came later & from some of the older guys I've met & my own experience it seems to have been steadily watered down.

The biggest problem with the WJJF seems to be the lack of quality control in the franchises (+the fact that it is a franchise operation). The club to club variability is huge & I have seen severally people who I am sure should not have got their belts (My old club now has a 1st dan who doesn't like to be thrown!)

**Kneedan** · Posted On: 8/07/2009 4:32am

Thanks for the link Nate - it's nice to see a fairly sober discussion of the issue. If you stranded 4 human beings on a desert island, I'd give it about a week before two of them split to form their own association.

**streetjujitsu** · Posted On: 9/30/2009 7:17pm

Been training, as an adult, (on and off) for 25 years. I had a short stint, as a kid, in a JJ club in Sheil Road, Liverpool (if anyone can remember who ran this club I would be most grateful), but began training in earnest with the BJJA/WJJF at the club in Bootle (Ferndale sportcentre, if memory serves me).
I can remember John Steadman occasionally coming to the club and taking the classes ,which to me at the time seemed to be of good quality.
The issue I have is that as I was appraching taking my dan grade I began to do some cross-training; this was frowned upon at the time and JS said "A man can only follow one path". I took this to mean that he wanted me to only given him my mat fees and that I was to have no false idols before me.
Without doubt the BJJA and the WJJF are commercial organisations and the likes of JS and Robert Clark make a living (and then some) from teaching and seminars etc. If, however, you have found a good teacher then stick with them untill it is time to move on; remember you are a paying customer and entitled to receive services in line with you expectations. You make the choices about what you expect to get from your training and you decide if the class you are attending is delivering on your expectations.
The biggest issue, however, is that inexperienced students may not recognise if they are being sold a crock. Being a member of a nationally or even inernationally recognised organisation will not guarantee standards; you'll have to judge that for yourself.
Will they take your money regardless...........yes, of course they will.
My advice is to ignore the history and the politics and make judgements based on what you see. If you want to have confidence in what you've learned, test it (preferably on the mat). If you find a gap in your training then fill it (cross train). Enjoy! It's only a hobby. Unless you really are a Samurai!

**docz** · Posted On: 10/01/2009 5:12pm

Hey.
Im new here but thought i'd jump in. I haven't trained in ANY martial arts for a long time but all my background is from a WJJF club.

I originally started at a local club outside of Liverpool, closer to southport. (the only club locally so not much choice where to go at the time) My first sensai was pretty young and we learnt from the Adult syllabus even though most of us where pretty young. (i was about 9 maybe when i started). lessons where pretty slack, but skill was down to what you put in. one or two blackbelts there when i started where pretty tough guys, and certainly didnt lack any skill. That said, I trained with people who where shockingly bad.

I was there for a long time. when I was 15 I was looking to do my own black belt, and my first teacher left. Tony Yung stepped in with 1st dan black belts from another club and the whole thing changed. he seemed to know what he was talking about and everything got more strict and focussed. I double up classes and started at another class midweek that was an adult class.

I basically focussed hard. 3 of us took out black belt grading and we all past. Alan Cambell took that. we had the choice to do a junior or senior test. The junior one was offered because of us being young, and we should have done junior syllabus. however we all knew the adult syllabus so we did that. The oldest one of us got a senior pass, while myself and one more guy got a black/white stripe. a junior pass. when i asked what the deal was i got told i wasnt old enough for a full senior grade, even though id past the exam, trained with adults for years. they wanted me to go through gold tabs.... it was old at that point where i realised (and i was probably old enough to realise) it was all about the money.

I spent two more years helping teach the junior class one day and training at the adult class the next. eventually i became so dissinterested with all the money side of things that i left. although Tony Yung was a good guy, ill say that.

I'll also say that I can still remember a LOT of what i learned back then, and there have been times where that knowledge has been tested in real fights, and so far i've come off better. I think thats down to Tony's teaching and my own dedication. If you think about the techniques in the syllabus there are some pretty standard handy things for someone totally new to self defence, but the federation doesnt really care about your well-being and therefore how well you understand what you've learnt.

my experience put me off having anything to do with martial arts for years. now i want to find something new

**streetjujitsu** · Posted On: 10/01/2009 5:39pm

There's a variety of good clubs and styles around now, dependant on where you live and what you want to do. I went back to the WJJF in the end (20+ years later)........but only because I found the right instructor. I'm not training with them now, for a number of reasons, but predominantly because I want to broaden my interests; the WJJF aren't very good at that.
The internet has dispelled many myths, about martial arts styles, as it has given us so much in the way of access for both the obscure and mainstream. When I started it was either the Red Triangle or Barlows Lane. You're spoilt for choice now. You can even be a Ninja......but you'll have to kill anyone who finds out.

**docz** · Posted On: 10/01/2009 5:47pm

I dunno what to go for. my housemate has done boxing, krav, and kick boxing. he said he liked Kick Boxing the least. he's pretty into Krav although he doesnt train anymore. I found someone running small classes who has studied Kick Boxing, Systema, Jeet Kun Do, and a bunch of other stuff. Those arts being the focus. Im going to admit, I find Systema really interesting (regardless of the stuff on here i was just reading about it) and I think it would be more relaxed than Krav, but thats all down to who is teaching you.

I tried my hand at TKD once but really didnt get on with it. A friends brother competes in TKD at a pretty high level, and also does systema. he got beat up pretty badly a while ago but said of the two he'd use systema in real self defense situation.

i know there is a lot of naysaying here, Im just trying to find something that isnt hyped and therefore expensive to train in (like a Krav seems to be in places). Im also not into the sport aspect of fighting any more. Id rather now severly effective self defence techniques.