6/14/2007 11:12pm, #101
- Join Date
- Sep 2006
- Santa Clara CA
I keep hearing or rather reading the term " good martial artist" from the types who don't believe in competition, hard sparring and the like and it makes me wonder how do you know if your instructor is a good martial artist if he's never fought anyone.
I know you say well a tourney isn't the screet and it isn't however it's about as close as you can get and if your instructor can't perform in competition he more than likely won't be able to protect himself when on the screet either. You see my logic in this.
Only in martial arts do we have this kind of stuff. You don't see guys saying " well I studied brain surgery and I'm a good surgeon but I've never performed brain surgery on an actual patient " .
I mean are you proponents of not competing, and no hard sparring telling me that you can learn how to fight without actually fighting (whether hard sparring or competing) ? I mean if that's your point then it's a point that doesn't have any weight to it and that's been proven time and time again.
So to the WJJF people along with anyone else that thinks this way could you please tell me what to you makes a "good martial artist" ? Thank yall in advance.
6/15/2007 12:24am, #102Originally Posted by TaliaSylvia
2) Don't issue challenges for others. You want to fight/Spar/Train cool talk for yourself.
6/15/2007 12:39am, #103Originally Posted by TaliaSylvia
Originally Posted by Nate1481
6/15/2007 4:03am, #104
I can't afford to go to england. I would also be extremely surprised if Simon Remmington didn't use to box, or do judo, and actually got quite good at those before or at the same time as he studied WJJF JuJitsu.
Because there are a lot of WJJF guys who could beat me. But that definitely doesn't include the ones who only ever studied WJJF.
Okay, tell you what. Here's your counter challenge. I think it's bullshit for you to expect me (or whoever you were addressing that challenge to, I'm going to take it personally) to fight a 7th degree black belt in your style who looks a hell of a lot bigger than me.
So you find me someone who has studied WJJF Jujitsu, and only WJJF JuJitsu, for up to 3 years, and is within 10kg of my weight (so up to 80kg or about 175lb) in Northern Ireland and I'll happily fight them.
Seriously. This is not ****-talking, I had a serious think about what I was prepared to actually do before I made this post. You find me someone who roughly fits that description, and I'll fight them.
6/15/2007 4:46am, #105
- Join Date
- Aug 2006
Das - I wouldn't bother getting your knickers in a twist over this numpty.
I doubt you'd find many people within WJJF that would want to fight. Not because they're scared - but because they don't train for it and tha vast majority of grown ups in the WJJF will be sufficiently mature to have a reasonable discourse about the strengths and weaknesses of their style/organisation without having to resort to the internet challenge.
Talia - there are several of us on the board who have direct experience of the WJJF, some of us having trained with them. Collectively, we are in a position to be able to make an educated judgement of the WJJF's standards.
Sadly, for you that judgement is that the WJJF has some serious issues. Aside from the way the organisation markets itself (video gradings? even you can't be so blinkered as to believe that that is any way to train in a martial art?) there are questions raised over the standard of training.
My own experience of the WJJF is that there are many good, competent martial artists in the organisation, but sadly there are many within the organisation that appear to hold senior kyu grade and even dan grades that are poor martial artists. The WJJF does appear to award grade on length of time of study rather than level of technical ability.
I have seen first hand a 1st kyu (now first dan) tapped by a beginner (their second lesson). They are a similar age and size and the beginner's prior experience is in shotokan (so no grappling). Now you have to admit that that is fairly damning? It is that kind of standard of ability that causes us to raise issue over the quality of training provided by the WJJF.
No one on here claimed your instructor could not fight, but I'm sure that he would be far from happy that you are making challenges on his behalf.
6/15/2007 4:50am, #106
Sorry home Inet is down so posting from work & must be brief.
I would not recommend most WJJF clubs as sole training. If however you look on it as a pure technique session, learning things to be practised later it's ok (hence why I now train at an MMA club as well). I've had a couple of training partners who were willing try things & wanted to make techniques work against someone who wasn't falling over, playing with the techniques and you figure out if it will work for you or not and most potential could, i.e. the principles are sound.
Having started BJJ last summer after 5 years of almost nothing but WJJF (few open mat sessions & a little kick boxing) I picked things up & was well ahead of other starters who'd been there a couple of months, the principles are similar so I picked it up faster (I still suck but that's just me) It's not the best preparation & you'd do better to go straight to BJJ, however you are learning different things, the is only basic groundwork in WJJF stuff, the throws are largely similar to judo (there's an evil version of Hane Makikomi called the head-hip & knee) but the lack of sparing means that when I've tried randori I'm only orange/green level, as, while I know lots of throw, I'm use to approaching them from a block with weakener strike and have difficulty getting into position.
One thing it does have to offer are the escapes, various methods (some convoluted some simple) of escaping from being grabbed (no not the wrist), these are not aimed for use in the ring they are self defence techniques, simple escapes from strangles are taught on the first belt (it's syllabus based) with basic one punch block-strike moves (yes one steps suck) and breakfalls. They would benefit from drilling more and a sparing back ground, and while against an experienced fighter they might not work and one or to would be a bad idea against a drunk idiot in the pub, which is the most likely application they have merit.
Don't get me wrong the lack of sparing and McDojo tenancies are issues, but if you add sparing & reduce the money grabbing it's not bad. I've had a good instructor, William Riley 7th dan, TaliaSylvia may have heard of him he runs the Katana clubs over in Oldham, (E. Manchester), he follow the party line on being anti-sport but he is good technique wise.
I have heard of & met Mr. Rimington, he took my 1st dan grading, he knows his stuff but against a decent weight matched MMA fighter I would not expect him to win unless he spars more than mos WJJF guys do, this said he'd kick my arse and would probably last a lot longer then most.
Professor Clarke I I have also met repeatedly & I think he's the leader on the Money drive, He seems to know his stuff when taking gradings, but I have never seen him train so can't comment.
That was longer than I intended hope it makes sense peen righting piece meal while working.
p.s. On McDojo notes there is a separate junior syllabus the and Junior BB is a seperate rank, there used to be an upgrade form Junior to senior taken at 16 but don't know if this still holdss
P.P.S As can be seen on the site posted above there are NVQ coaching qualifications that can be taken, these say nothing much on skill but a lot on teaching ability, NVQ 2 is roughly GCSE/AS equivilant.
Last edited by Nate1481; 6/15/2007 4:55am at . Reason: typo"This won't hurt me a bit..." - My training partner.:new_astha
6/15/2007 4:54am, #107
6/15/2007 4:58am, #108
Originally Posted by Nate1481
- Join Date
- Aug 2006
The junior BB's have to take the adult 1st dan grading on reaching 16 (or within 12 months of reaching 16)
6/15/2007 4:58am, #109
By the way Das Moose what the odds on you making a thowdown soon? There are a couple coming up, on the mainland or if were going to Bratislava sure we can get a few over the Irish sea."This won't hurt me a bit..." - My training partner.:new_astha
6/15/2007 5:09am, #110
I'd love to come but I'm a very poor student and what little money I have goes on training, competing, and alcohol. I will be coming up to glasgow for a weekend in september for a friend's birthday, I might be able to squeeze in some sparring around that or possibly head up a bit early. As I said in the throwdown email list, anyone who wants to come over to NI will have full room and board with me for the duration of their stay, and ample opportunity to train.