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  1. glad2bhere is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/14/2007 11:34am


     Style: Yon Mu Kwan Hapkido

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by OnceLost
    Are you aware of anyone who has claimed they can manipulate PPs to cause those effects?
    No, and that is exactly why I am suggesting this.

    What I have found is that when discussions come around to discussing DIM MAK the usual response is that such techniques are far too lethal to be played with, and perhaps they are. I just don't know. I also know that there is at least one person who issued a challenge to be knocked-out with a no-touch Ki technique and would award $1000 to the first person who could do that. Again I don't know if this would tell us anything or not.

    The thing I am thinking of is that if manipulation of the meridians, and by extension, the flow of Chi is a reality and not merely the power of suggestion, certain bits ought to hold true.

    a.) First the technique should work whether a person is quescient on a table in an office, or moving around a ring, yes?

    b.) Secondly, the technique should work with the same level of stimulus that one might use in a therapeutic setting. Accupressure indicates 5 to 10 lbs pressure on a given spot.

    c.) Thirdly the response should be measureable and involve some involuntary system of the body such as the digestive system, endocrine system or metabolism rate.

    d.) As a last point I also think that there should be some level of immediacy meaning that a reaction of recognizable import would occur within a relatively short period from the manipulation.

    Speaking for myself, when I go to my Acupuncturist, quiet and relaxation are the order of the day. Thoughts?

    Best Wishes,

    Bruce
  2. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/14/2007 12:08pm

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I moved this from the PP DM thread. I feel we will get in to a huge thread drift and we need to keep the other thread more of a definition based link.


    I think this is an interesting point. How would we really investigate Death Touch? Like G2, I have heard it is "too deadly" to be practiced. Yet, it is funny that there are delayed KO's that no one has ever experienced.

    To me this is the rub. I hit 2 points and the third I hit you in a legit weak spot. You go down and even though it was fraudulent/non-mystical, you can't prove me wrong.
  3. GoldenJonas is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/14/2007 12:19pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    This vid has been posted numerous times before but has some particular application to your questions concerning independent proof that a touch, no-touch, or light touch PP, meridian, or "chi" manipulation has "some" discernible affect on the human body.

    In the following investigation, the reporter brought along a couple paramedics who measured basic vitals during the act of KO'ing various students of the instructor. The paramedics come in at about 1:50.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ar1yXYOsxQk

    There is also a medical journal article out there which provides fairly empirical commentary and study on the effect, or lack there of, that PP and no-touch chi manipulation has.

    I'll see if I can dig it up from somewhere. Judah (a/k/a "samurai steve") may have a copy of it.
  4. lee is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/14/2007 3:36pm


     Style: pak mei

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    l believe its the one l saw on the news and he also tried some other spots and smacked the girl really hard and gave a lame excuse when it didnt work. one of my students students insisted on going to one of dillmans seminars . they stood in a line and he went down the line all of his students s who were my guess there teacher learned from dillman went down. non of my students students were affected so after that they were ignored. my sifu and my si-gung said its a myth. the supposed deaths from that is probably from a death after a challenge match from internal injuries that werent discovered in time. when the bare knuckle tournement in taiwan was started up after ww11 in early 70s two died one of a broken neck the other of a leaking spleen 200 years ago the spleen wouldnt have been discovered. we believe the hit on time and so on came from stories from a time when teachers of martial arts were not really well educated and were superstitious . that they had to have some explination for there students so as not to look stupid . these stories have been around for years and in my 4 plus decades in tma . l have never had it done to me or seen it. l know you can create pain from points used for accupuncture some will work on some and not on others due to thikness of muscle tissue . some the points are deeper harder to damage depends on the person .
  5. Cullion is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/14/2007 5:45pm

    supporting member
     Style: Tai Chi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by lee
    l believe its the one l saw on the news and he also tried some other spots and smacked the girl really hard and gave a lame excuse when it didnt work. one of my students students insisted on going to one of dillmans seminars . they stood in a line and he went down the line all of his students s who were my guess there teacher learned from dillman went down. non of my students students were affected so after that they were ignored. my sifu and my si-gung said its a myth. the supposed deaths from that is probably from a death after a challenge match from internal injuries that werent discovered in time. when the bare knuckle tournement in taiwan was started up after ww11 in early 70s two died one of a broken neck the other of a leaking spleen 200 years ago the spleen wouldnt have been discovered. we believe the hit on time and so on came from stories from a time when teachers of martial arts were not really well educated and were superstitious . that they had to have some explination for there students so as not to look stupid . these stories have been around for years and in my 4 plus decades in tma . l have never had it done to me or seen it. l know you can create pain from points used for accupuncture some will work on some and not on others due to thikness of muscle tissue . some the points are deeper harder to damage depends on the person .
    Here endeth the lesson. This thread need go no further.
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  6. Mr. Mantis is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/14/2007 6:01pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Thank you for sharing lee. That is my understanding of the whole dim mak issue as well.
    “We are surrounded by warships and don’t have time to talk. Please pray for us.” — One Somali Pirate.
  7. Mr. Mantis is offline
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    One Ambulance, Eleven Cops...

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    Posted On:
    3/14/2007 6:01pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Cullion
    Here endeth the lesson. This thread need go no further.
    I know, I should lock the thread.
    “We are surrounded by warships and don’t have time to talk. Please pray for us.” — One Somali Pirate.
  8. lee is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/14/2007 6:28pm


     Style: pak mei

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    thank you
  9. glad2bhere is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/15/2007 8:56am


     Style: Yon Mu Kwan Hapkido

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by OnceLost
    So metabolic process and digestion = Dim Mak?
    Gee, I HOPE not. What I was working to do was to set-up some sort of project by which we could tell if the sort of "soft" manipulation of meridian points that is suppose to produce a "delayed death touch" could actually produce ANY change in involuntary processes in the human body under dynamic conditions. Does this help? Thoughts?

    Best Wishes,

    Bruce
  10. glad2bhere is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/15/2007 9:05am


     Style: Yon Mu Kwan Hapkido

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Whoa! Hold on a second. I'm afraid that as a researcher I have to speak up here. This is not what I would call "objective".

    First off, the clip did not show people under a dynamic situation. The fact is that I think anyone can probably hit somebody, at rest, in the jaw or neck and knock them back. Further I take issue with the idea that the teacher posits that only about "40%" of people are susceptible "...and atletes are the hardest". We all have the same bodies and the Ki circulation ought be the same, yes?

    Secondly, performing on one's students is not exactly what I would call "un-biased".

    Thirdly, the "no touch" is not "no-touch" if, as in the case of the last few subjects, the teacher is actually making contact with the forehead, temple or neck, yes?

    Now the fact is that I don't really have a dog in this fight. However, I would like to make a position for doing good research and sound methodology. Thoughts?

    Best Wishes,

    Bruce
    Last edited by glad2bhere; 3/15/2007 9:13am at .
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