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  1. OnceLost is offline
    OnceLost's Avatar

    Here's looking at you, squid.

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    Sep 2006
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    North Florida
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    2,860

    Posted On:
    3/15/2007 7:17am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Ke?po, MMA ultra-newb

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Pepper spraying anywhere could get you sprayed just as bad - there are three types of contamination with a chemical weapon:
    Direct - the guy you spray
    Indirect - when the guy you spray wipes it in your eyes
    Environmental - when the paramedic who picks you up gets some in his eye because its still in the air

    Chemical sprays are also pain compliance (even OC, which causes involuntary eye closure), but I can state with authority that getting hit three times doesn't make them completely ineffective - you just learn what kind of pain you're dealing with. I've been hit with about as many different types as are available; OC, CS, CN, blends of two or all three, gases, powders, mists, fogs, etc.
    "Reason is a choice. Wishes and whims are not facts, nor are they a means to discovering them. Reason is our only way to grasping reality -- it's our basic tool of survival. We are free to evade the effort of thinking, to reject reason, but we are not free to avoid the penalty of the abyss we refuse to see."
    - Terry Goodkind, "Faith of the Fallen"
  2. WhiteShark is offline
    WhiteShark's Avatar

    1% Shark is better than you.

    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Atlanta GA
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    9,176

    Posted On:
    3/15/2007 9:55am

    supporting memberforum leaderstaff
     Style: BJJ/Shidokan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Buy him a good pair of running shoes and a satellite cell phone. That way he can get the hell away and call you from anywhere.
  3. Cullion is offline
    Cullion's Avatar

    Everybody was Kung Fu fighting

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    Mar 2005
    Location
    Oxford, UK
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    6,526

    Posted On:
    3/15/2007 3:16pm

    supporting member
     Style: Tai Chi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by elipson
    Come on cullion. Pepperspraying in a car will get you sprayed just as bad, moving or not.
    What about the liquid kind? Irritants don't have to be vapourised.
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  4. Don Gwinn is online now
    Don Gwinn's Avatar

    BJJ wins again!

    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Virden, IL
    Posts
    3,570

    Posted On:
    3/15/2007 6:36pm

    supporting member
     Style: Guns

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Cullion, if we must:

    1. It's hard to "accidentally" kill someone with a knife, too. You have to cut or stab a vital spot to do it. That doesn't happen by accident very often. It IS easier to kill someone with a knife, but not so much by accident, and the feature that makes the knife lethal--the fact that you can destroy muscles, central nervous system parts, and cause bad bleeding--also makes it a more permanent stopper than pepper spray, although I don't really see the two as excluding each other.

    2. You can't cut an apple with pepper spray.
    I'm not just recommending a weapon that can pass for a tool with a wink and a nudge. As far as I'm concerned, every adult ought to be carrying a knife when they leave the house, period. On a cross-country trip, that goes double.
    *********************************************
  5. moli is offline

    Registered Member

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    Sep 2006
    Posts
    98

    Posted On:
    3/15/2007 7:48pm


     Style: Muay Thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Or a tool that includes a functional knife. A few multi-tools have blades that open with one hand and lock open.

    This Gerber: http://www.knifecenter.com/kc_new/st....html?s=GB1517

    includes a 3 inch locking blade, plus it includes many other useful tools.
  6. elipson is offline
    elipson's Avatar

    Ad Hominem rocks.

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    Aug 2002
    Location
    BC, Canada
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    3,478

    Posted On:
    3/15/2007 8:14pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ, mma

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Oncelost, would you say that it gets easier to deal with chemical irritants with more exposure? I've talked to cops who have told me that.

    We OC sprayed a friend of mine once. He didn't seem overly effected by it. He had been hit by bear spray once, so we think that played a part in it. It was also very cold outside when we sprayed him, and I've read that has a negative effect on it. It started to affect him once we went inside and it warmed up.

    I can't wait until that idiot lets us tazer him :D
  7. patfromlogan is offline
    patfromlogan's Avatar

    Heavyweight

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    Sep 2002
    Location
    Hilo Island of Hawaii
    Posts
    8,871

    Posted On:
    3/15/2007 10:02pm

    supporting member
     Style: Kyokushinkai / Kajukenbo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    He refuses to carry anything that will get him in trouble when searched by the cops. He thinks that his 3" pocket clip knife that he can flip open fast is probably all that he'll carry. I like the double shoulder holster thing, not him. They can be used slicking, sticking, or throwing. But that would, as he pointed out, give him a jail term fast, if searched. As a punk type he's been pulled over and searched many many times. Thrown across the hood of a car for no reason on the road to Rainbow Gathering and so forth. Here in Logan the mormons are all paranoid about losing their youth so the cops are really hard on teens.

    He is a little guy who is a very fast fighter - pretty good, at least at medium contact standup - though his karate style has quite a bit of Judo and ground, he tends to suck at ground - he'd be black if he'd ever bother testing. Very explosive with hands and feet. I can't imagine him standing there threatening anyone with a blade, he's just not the type to bullshit around. I can imagine him poking it in someone's eye or dropping their guts on the sidewalk. And I'd much rather get a call to bail him out than a call from a mortuary or a hospital.
    "Preparing mentally, the most important thing is, if you aren't doing it for the love of it, then don't do it." - Benny Urquidez
  8. Cullion is offline
    Cullion's Avatar

    Everybody was Kung Fu fighting

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    Mar 2005
    Location
    Oxford, UK
    Posts
    6,526

    Posted On:
    3/15/2007 11:02pm

    supporting member
     Style: Tai Chi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Don Gwinn
    1. It's hard to "accidentally" kill someone with a knife, too. You have to cut or stab a vital spot to do it. That doesn't happen by accident very often.
    People die from stab wounds. I'm not talking about him dropping the knife and killing somebody as it falls off a tall building and penetrates the top of an innocent bystanders skull. I'm talking about the case where a college-age kid who has almost certainly never been in a knife fight before and has received no training in preparation for pulls out a knife to try and fight with it.

    -the fact that you can destroy muscles, central nervous system parts, and cause bad bleeding--also makes it a more permanent stopper than pepper spray
    Why does anybody need a 'permanent stopper' for self defence purposes ?

    I'm not just recommending a weapon that can pass for a tool with a wink and a nudge. As far as I'm concerned, every adult ought to be carrying a knife when they leave the house, period. On a cross-country trip, that goes double.
    We're not talking about knives as a tool here, we're talking about Pat looking for one as his
    son's primary means of self-defence
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  9. billy sol hurok is offline
    billy sol hurok's Avatar

    Welterweight

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    Feb 2006
    Location
    East Coast
    Posts
    849

    Posted On:
    3/16/2007 6:34am

    supporting member
     Style: age&treachery

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by patfromlogan
    He refuses to carry anything that will get him in trouble when searched by the cops. He thinks that his 3" pocket clip knife that he can flip open fast is probably all that he'll carry. I like the double shoulder holster thing, not him. They can be used slicking, sticking, or throwing. But that would, as he pointed out, give him a jail term fast, if searched. As a punk type he's been pulled over and searched many many times. Thrown across the hood of a car for no reason on the road to Rainbow Gathering and so forth. Here in Logan the mormons are all paranoid about losing their youth so the cops are really hard on teens.
    He sounds like a smart kid. He's much more likely to encounter cops than serial killers.
  10. JohnnyCache is offline
    JohnnyCache's Avatar

    All Out of Bubblegum

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    May 2004
    Posts
    10,479

    Posted On:
    3/16/2007 11:02am

    supporting memberforum leader
     Style: FMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    This is the kershaw folder I had in mind.

    Primarially a tool, clearly, but not something I'd like in my larnyx either.
    There's no choice but to confront you, to engage you, to erase you. I've gone to great lengths to expand my threshold of pain. I will use my mistakes against you. There's no other choice.
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