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  1. AlWest is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/10/2007 11:14am

    Bullshido Newbie
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Rogue Xingyiquan

    I haven't really introduced myself, and this is my first post. As I'm not sure of the etiquette around here and I'm posting out of urgency, I will just say a few words and get down to things.
    I'm English, and I train in Xingyiquan, having previously done Judo for a while when I was younger, and Changquan for a while as well (the only part of my Changquan that I like is "gong li quan" - very subtle form). I have trained in the system only for a few years (it will be about 6 years since I started in June this year) with a father of a Chinese friend of mine. He does not teach openly, but he is good, and I am 100% positive that his xingyiquan is not bullshido. The only rule he has is really not to throw out a lot of hot air when discussing martial arts, and not to discuss which style or teacher is best. I will be in Taiwan starting this summer, to study, but I also intend to get extra martial tuition, and I've done lots of research, as has my teacher, into good instructors in the ROC.
    Anyway, the point of my quick registration and posting: I saw the most dreadful thing I've ever seen in my life on Youtube. I know, I know, you shouldn't go searching for good martial arts videos on Youtube (although I have seen a few that were more than passable), but this... this takes the damn biscuit. I've never in my life seen worse martial arts, especially something purporting to be as great, in this practitioner's opinion, as Xingyiquan. I probably won't post any more on this site, I just wanted to inform everyone of this, so that they can put out a notice against this school, if there isn't one already. The URL is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kjLGbwkexQ
    Enjoy. Or, as I did, weep.
  2. meng_mao is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/10/2007 11:46am

    supporting member
     Style: kickboxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Al, you shouldn't be surprised -- this is representative of the quality of a lot of schools out there.

    Depends on what the student wants though. If he is truly seeking to learn how to fight effectively, he's deluding himself. He should be smarter than that.
    52 blocks documentary: arrived

    "Joe Lauzon looks like a quiet, Internet guy..." -- Dana White
  3. AlWest is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/10/2007 11:53am

    Bullshido Newbie
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Wow. Really? That's terrible. I agree, it is partly due to the student's wants, but if he just did some research - even just using the internet - he'd see that ALL of his movements were wrong, that the principles have not been grasped, and so on.
    The problem is that people are labelling something as xingyiquan, when it verifiably is not, and I thought that xingyi was reasonably bullshido-free. Oh well, goes to show you never can tell.
  4. isol8d is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/10/2007 12:21pm


     Style: kung fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    maybe he was testing in Hap Ki Do or Tae Kwon Do....

    Yoo's Authentic Martial Arts
  5. meng_mao is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/10/2007 12:38pm

    supporting member
     Style: kickboxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by AlWest
    I thought that xingyi was reasonably bullshido-free.
    I think you'd be hard put to make the case that any CMA is bullshido-free.

    From my own experience, it's difficult to elevate your studies above your teacher tells you, if you don't aggressively hound after the 'truth.'
    When I was young, I took taichi at the local chinese association weekend events. It was taught by some really old guy who would show us good form, but not explain what these forms were for in any true combat context. For example, at the end of grasp swallow's tail, there's a shoulder check movement called kao, I believe. We were told this is to knock your opponent away from you, and to try to transfer your upright upperbody forward using your leg strength. An entirely reasonable explanation and reasonable move, but I wasn't equipped to explore the true execution of it.

    In the long run, I abandoned taichi because I was looking to learn fighting principles, and I failed to see how any of it was combat-relevant (since it was never denied that we wouldn't be able to use this in a fight or self-defense). In the early parts though, I didn't know enough to say, "This is bullshido. I need to learn more effective techniques and engage in better training." I just didn't have a good enough understanding of fighting.

    Now when I eventually did get into kickboxing, I joyfully tested the shoulder check on a heavy bag, discovering in the process the things I would have learned initially, if I'd had the right teacher and the right teaching: the effective range (short), how to explode with my legs, etc.

    Conclusion -- if you know nothing at all about fighting, it's difficult to know that the way you're being taught is insufficient. The longer you go though, as long as you're seeking the truth, the more glaring the holes should become.
    52 blocks documentary: arrived

    "Joe Lauzon looks like a quiet, Internet guy..." -- Dana White
  6. dwhomp is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/10/2007 9:55pm


     Style: Xing-Yi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    1. I use that video to show others what happens when Xing Yi is learned at a weekend seminar. Bad XY looks like good karate.

    2. Also shows how easy XY is to learn and how bad it can be without good instruction

    3. In ref to Meng above: You are right. When labeled with the rest of CMA, most if not all have some ullshit to em. However, grappling and kickboxing are no different; I could point to a bit of bullshit that is taught here that is garbage. Those of us that fight/spar in these realms chose Xing Yi just for the fact of its fighting. This is shown by many of the more well known XY instructors in the US and China that frequently enter or train students for full contact events and such.

    I connot speak to other CMA study as I dont have experience with them short of the occasional sparring with em.
  7. meng_mao is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/11/2007 12:38am

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     Style: kickboxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by dwhomp
    1. Bad XY looks like good karate.
    /shakes head/ Honestly, that is unfairly insulting to karate.
    52 blocks documentary: arrived

    "Joe Lauzon looks like a quiet, Internet guy..." -- Dana White
  8. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/11/2007 1:44am

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by meng_mao
    /shakes head/ Honestly, that is unfairly insulting to karate.
    Welcome to CMA Bias 101.

    Yet, it reinforces your previous statement of:

    I think you'd be hard put to make the case that any CMA is bullshido-free.
  9. dwhomp is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/11/2007 3:39am


     Style: Xing-Yi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Reposted below
    Last edited by dwhomp; 4/11/2007 4:34am at .
  10. dwhomp is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/11/2007 3:41am


     Style: Xing-Yi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake
    Welcome to CMA Bias 101.

    Yet, it reinforces your previous statement of:
    That any art has Bullshito in it.

    Yep, I agree. You think it is limited to CMA or anything else? There is some in every art.
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