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  1. UpaLumpa is offline
    UpaLumpa's Avatar

    Exasperated.

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    Descending into absurdity
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    Posted On:
    3/11/2007 4:39pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    No, you're not right.
    Belts can be BS money makers but they don't necessarily mean "bullshido".
    BJJ has several belts and some schools do stripes (which apparenly means athletic tap). There, as in judo, the belts mean somehting.

    If the belts don't mean anything and don't give any indication of actual fighting ability, then yes, they're bullshido. Otherwise no.
  2. Iscariot is offline

    I decided I'd have a pretty avatar for a while.

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    Sheffield, England
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    Posted On:
    3/11/2007 4:42pm


     Style: Student Jutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by panthersix
    So am I right in stating that anything more than three belts and it's Bullshido? (unless you're wearing tartan with no drawers)
    No. BJJ for instance has more than three, and I wouldn't go throwing words like Bullshido around in relation to it unless you want to incurr the wrath of the BJJihad.

    Time for the explanation:
    Bullshido is a term we use to talk about fraudulent practices in the MAs, made up histories, grades etc.
    McDojo is a term to describe the tactics of some to make as much money out of people as possible, contracts that lock people in etc.

    You can have one thousand belt ranks and not be either Bullshido or McDojo. McDojos often use a 'revenue rainbow' of multiple colours combined with stripes (to at least double the number of levels). They then charge a large amount to test, and these tests are mandatory. This is a scheme for making money. Back to your earlier example, BJJ has more than three grades for adults (White, Blue, Purple, Brown, Black) but do not (at least in the mainstream) charge for testing, an instructor tells you one day to change your belt and you've advanced a grade.

    Many arts that do not traditionally have grading systems (Muay Thai for instance) have instituted systems so that people can gauge their progress. This isn't automatically Bullshido or McDojo.

    OK, I'm rambling, so to summarise:
    McDojo - Practices to make money (high cost belt tests)
    Bullshido - fradulent practices

    You posted (I think) the cost of your grade tests earlier in the thread, repost them with your art, rough geographic location, and a link to the website of your school and we'll let you know how it compares to other stuff.

    Final point: The whole 'start as a white belt that became dirtier over time until it was black' thing is complete rubbish, an urban myth. Anyone who claims it's fact is lying, if it's your instructor he's guilty of either Bullshido or gross ignorance. The coloured belt system was invented by the founder of Judo, Jigoro Kano. It has been copied into other arts as it's an easy visual way to identify how long someone's practiced an art.
    "Listen to Iscariot you Vicchysoise ninja-fuckers!" - kohadril
    "Are you going to rise to godhood out of the ashes of Earth? " - frumpleswift
    "I'll pray for you Iscariot." - Mas
    "Iscariot, check your pulse and report back. We need to know if you are in fact, not alive." - Lu Tzu
    "Iscariot is victorious!" - Dai Tenshi
    "More God delusions." - DAYoung
    "Iscariot, despite our obvious doctrinal differences, I salute your exquisite bastardry, and take back half of all the bad things I ever said about you." - Zendetta
  3. kwoww is offline
    kwoww's Avatar

    poser

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    Jan 2007
    Location
    Lower Hudson Valley / Rochester
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    1,986

    Posted On:
    3/11/2007 4:46pm


     Style: punching bag / crew jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Iscariot
    It has been copied into other arts as it's an easy visual way to identify how long someone's practiced an art.
    Which is exactly why having 10 belts isn't so bad after all.
  4. Iscariot is offline

    I decided I'd have a pretty avatar for a while.

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    Posted On:
    3/11/2007 4:50pm


     Style: Student Jutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by kwoww
    Which is exactly why having 10 belts isn't so bad after all.
    Having 10 belts isn't automatically a bad thing.

    Charging for the tests probably is.
    "Listen to Iscariot you Vicchysoise ninja-fuckers!" - kohadril
    "Are you going to rise to godhood out of the ashes of Earth? " - frumpleswift
    "I'll pray for you Iscariot." - Mas
    "Iscariot, check your pulse and report back. We need to know if you are in fact, not alive." - Lu Tzu
    "Iscariot is victorious!" - Dai Tenshi
    "More God delusions." - DAYoung
    "Iscariot, despite our obvious doctrinal differences, I salute your exquisite bastardry, and take back half of all the bad things I ever said about you." - Zendetta
  5. pauli is offline

    i keep tryin to spar, but nothin happens!

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    Feb 2005
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    herndon, va, usa
    Posts
    3,521

    Posted On:
    3/11/2007 6:11pm

    supporting member
     Style: karate / bjj

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    How Many Belts are Enuf?
    one is enough, more is too many, and none are necessary.

    i like my belts. they keep my gi closed (well, more or less), and they look spiffy. they also serve to let anyone visiting see at a glance that i don't know what the **** i'm doing yet, but also that i do know more than some of the other people.
  6. Soju_King is offline
    Soju_King's Avatar

    Welterweight

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    Mar 2005
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    South Korea
    Posts
    671

    Posted On:
    3/11/2007 6:23pm

    supporting member
     Style: Tae-Ninjitsu Mu Sool

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    army combatives: no belts, just a piece of paper saying your certified in level 1, 2,3, or 4

    my tkd dojang: white,yellow,green,blue, brown, red, red/black for peeps under 16, black

    old hkd school: white,green,blue, red, black
  7. PointyShinyBurn is offline
    PointyShinyBurn's Avatar

    Gnarly King of Half-Guard

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    London, UK
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    Posted On:
    3/11/2007 6:29pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Iscariot
    The coloured belt system was invented by the founder of Judo, Jigoro Kano.
    Actually, while Kano did invent the Kyu/Dan system and the black belt, it was Kawaishi who invented the other colours for kyu grades. He got the idea from a similar system using coloured swimming caps.
  8. colonelpong is offline

    Registered Member

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    Feb 2007
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    152

    Posted On:
    3/11/2007 6:43pm


     Style: kickboxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Cowgunner
    Goju-Ryu Karate

    White

    Green

    Purple

    Brown

    Black



    we use strips for each belt to keep the costs down. You only pay $10 for your belt and test.
    In my Goju- Ryu days we had white, yellow, green, brown and black. Hed the strips as well. From memory the grading was $10.

    Mind you, membership was $10 a month so all round it was pretty good.

    But on the belt topic, persoannly , I gave up believing in belts a very long time ago. Dont see any point in them really.

    :beatdead:
  9. Ajax is offline
    Ajax's Avatar

    Featherweight

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    Apr 2006
    Location
    Michigan
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    57

    Posted On:
    3/11/2007 8:09pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Tang Soo Do

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I think that the 10 kyu(gup)/10 dan ranks is standard in a lot of styles. I think having ten individual belts is overkill, and mostly for the money. My Tang Soo DO school has white, purple, green, and red. but each color has 2-3 stripes associated with it. Belts are only helpfull within the org. Helps the teachers remember what you should be working on, no more, no less. Trying to compare ranks between schools is just a waste.
  10. Nickeroon1987 is offline

    Registered Member

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    Dec 2006
    Posts
    396

    Posted On:
    3/11/2007 8:58pm


     Style: Goju-Ryu, BJJ, MT

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    In my Goju class:

    White
    Advanced White (green stripe)
    Yellow
    Green
    Purple
    Brown (degrees 1,2,3)
    Black
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