Bullshidoka Arguments

[tellner]

Another solid, classic reference if you don't mind turgid Germanic prose is Schopenhauer's Art of Controversy. It's not just about logical fallacies but about styles and techniques for arguing.

[kungfu2u]

You forgot my favorite:

Bullshidoka Argument #XX

He used to be a great fighter but is now injured/fat usually do to one of the unverifiable d34dly martial arts bouts in his past. This goes along with he used to be a violent and dangerous person but now sees that martial arts are meant for peace. I'm using the third person because this argument is most often supplied by a student.

Bullshido answer: Then he should be able to produce a student that can fight or else he has no business teaching at all.


This may fit into the general category of resting on one's unverifiable laurels.

AND he can throw his students around easily. O-senseless, right?

[futabachan]

#23: One of the questionee's students -- or a sock puppet, or a fellow questionable instructor -- turns up out of the blue to vouch for them (and possibly move the thread off into email). "I train with Grand Master Dai O-Soke X, and he is a good man and an excellent martial artist. Please email me about any questions you have about him."

It's nice that Student Y has such a high opinion of them, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they're being taught anything useful. Or that they're not actually a sock puppet.

[Lysol]

I'm surprised that this hasn't been mentioned yet, so here:

Bullshidoka Argument #24: Irrelevant Appeal to Authority.
The bullshidoka in question makes an appeal to his/her authority that is not relevant to the investigation or his/her claims. For example, the bullshidoka might say something like "I was a DII All American wrestler in college, how dare you question my jiu jitsu rank!". Likewise, references military/police service may also be made.

This is also common from supporters of the bullshidoka. For an example, see the Ju-Te Ryu thread. The thread dealt with the founder of Ju-Te Ryu claiming that his system was a form of judo, while he had no formal judo training. Also, his technique was extremely sloppy. After a while, a person joined the discussion and said (paraphrasing, of course), "His takedowns are not sloppy, I am a Hapkido black belt and I was impressed by them". Likewise, a student might say "I earned my blackbelt in Tae Kwon Do before I joined his Pankration club, do you not think I know a good martial artist when I see one?"

Counter - Point it out, and explain to them why X does not equal Y.

[1point2]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning-kruger_effect

The above post touches on this phenomenon, which we see in spades around here from bullshidoka--and occasionally a bully or five.

1. Incompetent individuals tend to overestimate their own level of skill.
2. Incompetent individuals fail to recognize genuine skill in others.
3. Incompetent individuals fail to recognize the extremity of their inadequacy.
4. If they can be trained to substantially improve their own skill level, these individuals can recognize and acknowledge their own previous lack of skill.

[It is Fake]

The opinion defense.

It is usually floated when someone is backed into a corner. They attack the website and the posters in the thread. When called to provide proof they say "it is my opinion" or "my .02 cents."

They then try to derail the thread saying, they are entitled to an opinion and that you have no right to question their assertions.

Best way to handle this is to agree. "Yes, you have a right to your opinion just as I have a right to disagree."

Then ignore the protestations and stick to the topic.

[hungryjoe]

Bullshidoka defense #25:

The old "I won't join the thread to shed light on my claims but will threaten to drag you through the courts for defamation of character."

This tactic scares off many who might otherwise post. Shuts up many who do post when threatened.

Counter - Know your facts. Present factual evidence, i.e., documentation from bullshidoka's own website(s), available public records and timeline/history of events. A little help from those who've fallen prey to defense #25 is always beneficial.

Be prepared to go the distance.

[Lindz]

Argument #26 too deadly to spar

What we do is too dangerous to perform full force/in resistant sparring so you'll just have to take our word that it works.

Counter. I shouldn't have to take your word for something you're charging people money for or when lives could be at stake.

Argument #27 street vs sport

hat we do is illegal in sport fighting but it's very effective in street fights where there are no rules.

Prove it.


I can't believe someone didn't get to these before me.

[It is Fake]

You see those more in YMAS than MABS.

[Rock Ape]

Does this topic want writing up and including in .org now ?

Do we feel we have enough now with nearly 30 excuses ? The article can always be updated when required.

If people are happy I'll write it up and give credit accordingly.

Dave