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  1. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/06/2007 7:53pm

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Oh Noes the Dim Mak vs Pressure Point thread.

    Okay, in the last few months I've noticed this fascination with Dim Mak. IMO I've also noticed that people merge Dim Mak with Pressure points (not entirely their fault).

    I personally make a distinctiuon between the two.


    Pressure points exist and ARE NOT TEH D34DLY.
    Dim Mak is TEH D34DLY and is bullshido.

    I have a couple posts where I was trying to make the distinction. I'll find them and copy them to this thread.

    Logical debate and questions will be cool, trolling will get nuked. Sorry, this is a very touchy subject.

    I'd love to hear both sides.
  2. Neildo is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/06/2007 9:13pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: FBSD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I fully agree.
  3. SifuJason is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/06/2007 10:49pm


     Style: WHKD (Kaju), Sub. Grapple

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Initially, I would agree with your assessment. However, with further thought and analysis of my MA education, and in the spirit of debate, I would suggest that Dim Mak does not necessarily have to be bullshido, but often is.

    Good Dim Mak as I have understood it is the application of Iron Hand techniques along with poisons (powders and liquids of various forms) such that when you strike an opponent in certain locations, the skin is appreciably punctured and the poison is administered.
  4. Neildo is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/06/2007 10:51pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: FBSD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Like 'Bhuddas Palm' from that Iron monkey movie?
  5. WorldWarCheese is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/06/2007 10:52pm


     Style: Muay Thai n00b

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Well, isn't Dim Mak just the knowledge of various pressure points put together then slowly because of just random crazy people out there it slowly diverged from its pressure point origins into what it is today?

    I've watched a Dim Mak vid (yes, I own it. I got caught up in t3h d34dly, whatever) and some of the striking locations are really pressure points along the human body. None are deadly, but they ARE actual pressure points.
  6. Bang! is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/07/2007 1:04am

    supporting memberBullshido Newbie
     Style: Wu Style TCC + BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Here's a version of a real honest-to-gosh pressure point in action:

    In BJJ, a standard takedown is the cinturada (which I'm probably butchering the spelling of). From double underhooks, you then then cinch your hands around the opponent's waist gripping on the far side. From there, you will generally hook one of their legs -- as in a trip -- and step through to take the person to the ground. One generally just turns their head to the side and uses it to create a little bit of high pressure.

    Now -- for the first time -- the deadly tai chi version!!111

    While there's more emphasis on circularity, it's basically the same takedown. However, instead of turning your head to the side, you dig your chin into the person's coracoid process, which really helps trigger a wicked awesome SCARS-style reaction that makes them more likely to lean backwards.

    Coracoid process?

    Here

    It's the bony protrusion just under the number one. You can find it by locating the lateral third of your collar bone and then tracing a line down and inward, pressing down until something makes you go, "Owee zowee!"

    I like this example for a few reasons:
    1. It requires a little bit of anatomical knowledge
    2. It's an added dimension to an existing technique
    3. It shows that you already have to be able to do **** before you can apply it.
  7. socratic is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/07/2007 1:33am


     Style: gah, transition again

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Chris Crudelli's 'Mind, Body & Kickass Moves' did a section on Dim Mak, though I'll admit that Crudelli is big on 'esoteric energies', if you catch my drift, so it gets quite thoroughly caught up in the supposed deadly nature of these techniques.

    They seem to suggest that Dim Mak is done via chi manipulation, which to me at least seems like a red flag for bullshido, but the host (Chris Crudelli) points out that 'a litttle bit of mind control' is involved; to my mind, it looks more like psychology than actual attacks.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hs8mblcgTsk

    (The best footage of 'Dim Mak' is in the first minuteish. Chris mentions 'pressure points', at about 1:40, but I'd assume, since they're accupuncture points, that he means chi meridians.)

    On the other hand, pressure points seem to be the real deal, having had pressure put on some of mine (suprise suprise, it hurt) and whatnot.
    Last edited by socratic; 3/07/2007 1:36am at .
  8. glad2bhere is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/07/2007 8:11am


     Style: Yon Mu Kwan Hapkido

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    It may be worthwhile to remember that when discusssing something like "dim mak" that there are cross-cultural and informational issues to be considered.

    The use of the Chinese model to explain the manner in which health ad disease are explained has been able to make its way into modern medicine because the Chinese culture historically eschewed the "scientific model" when it came to studies such as Physiology and Anatomy. In this way, while a fractured rib was rather easy to diagnose, a thrombosis to the cardial muscle, rupture of lung tissue, or the violation of any of the sacs that hold these structures in place would have been quite a mystery. The same might be said of the sub-dural hematoma which can still take a life in our modern world when it goes undiagnosed.

    I think its important to remember that in many part of Asian culture, until after World War Two, the development of simply muscular strength through systematic conditioning was still viewed as "accruing Ki" rather than amassing mitachondria in the muscle cells. I think if I was discussing "dim mak" I would probably up-date the frame of reference for how damage to structures is assessed. Whatever one might call it, a rupture to the Liver is still a rupture to the liver, right? Thoughts?

    Best Wishes,

    Bruce
  9. Southpaw is online now
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    Posted On:
    3/07/2007 8:29am

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ, Wing Chun

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake??
    Okay, in the last few months I've noticed this fascination with Dim Mak. IMO I've also noticed that people merge Dim Mak with Pressure points (not entirely their fault).

    I personally make a distinctiuon between the two.


    Pressure points exist and ARE NOT TEH D34DLY.
    Dim Mak is TEH D34DLY and is bullshido.
    I totally agree that they are not the deadly with regards to being targets for strikes in a real fight that promise to end the fight immediately.

    However...there are examples of say...a third baseman taking a hard ground ball to the temple off of a bad hop and dying. So...there is a possibility that they can be the deadly. :)

    Very, very, very rare...but it has happened.
  10. Tom Kagan is offline
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    Dark Overlord of the Bullshido Underworld

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    Posted On:
    3/07/2007 8:38am

    supporting member
     Style: Taai Si Ji Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I never learned Dim Mak and I never want to. Some night, I might be touching myself, make a mistake, and I'd die.


    A little trivia: Dim Mak is the name of a child's game in Toisan, China. It's kind of like a mix of freeze tag and base tag.
    Calm down, it's only ones and zeros.

    "Your calm and professional manner of response is really draining all the fun out of this. Can you reply more like Dr. Fagbot or something? Call me some names, mention some sand in my vagina or something of the sort. You can't expect me to come up with reasonable arguments man!" -- MaverickZ

    "Tom Kagan spins in his grave and the fucking guy isn't even dead yet." -- Snake Plissken

    My Bullshido fan club threads:
    Tom Kagan's a big hairy...
    Tom Kagan can lick my BALLS
    Tom Kagan teaches _ing __un and bigotry?
    Tom Kagan: Serious discussion here
    Lamokio asks the burning question is Tom Kagan a ***** or just cruising for some
    I'm Dave the gay Kickboxer from Manchester and I have the hots for Tom Kagan
    TOM KAGAN, OPEN ME, THE MKT ARE COMING FOR YOU ! ARE YOU MAN ENOUGH TO MEET ?
    ATTN TOM KAGAN
    World Dominator 'Kagan' in plot to lie about real Kung Fu and Martial Arts
    Tom Kagan just gave me my third negative rep in a day
    I am infatuated with Tom Kagan
    Tom Kagan is a fat balding white guy.
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