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  1. #11

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Well thought out essay. The irony is that people who train "alive" as in BJJ are probably the least likely to be violent - i.e. they are put in situations routinely that require calm nerves, rational decision making, and the control of powerful emotions such as anger and fear. People who train in bullshido, on the other hand, spend a lot of time believing that they are "non-violent", but in reality are probably more likely to react out of fear and anger.

    I wouldn't mess with any of the senior guys in my BJJ school - but you know what, they're all really nice guys, and decent to the core.

  2. #12

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by weechey
    Well thought out essay. The irony is that people who train "alive" as in BJJ are probably the least likely to be violent - i.e. they are put in situations routinely that require calm nerves, rational decision making, and the control of powerful emotions such as anger and fear. People who train in bullshido, on the other hand, spend a lot of time believing that they are "non-violent", but in reality are probably more likely to react out of fear and anger.

    I wouldn't mess with any of the senior guys in my BJJ school - but you know what, they're all really nice guys, and decent to the core.

    I would not say that any one for any martial art reason is nice or not, thats just their style. there are plenty of assholes everywhere and for every reason.

    Pacification is really one of the most violent things one can do to oneself.

  3. #13

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I happen to like violence; there isn't much that's as much fun as punching one of my fellow human beings in the face. You just have to keep it in it's proper place so no one gets arrested or (hopefully) seriously injured. What's the point of martial arts without violence?

  4. #14

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by From Bell2Bell
    I happen to like violence; there isn't much that's as much fun as punching one of my fellow human beings in the face. You just have to keep it in it's proper place so no one gets arrested or (hopefully) seriously injured. What's the point of martial arts without violence?

    If you are enjoying and they are enjoying the punch, it is not really that violent, it it very connecting and empowering to both people.

  5. #15

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by polishillusion
    I would not say that any one for any martial art reason is nice or not, thats just their style. there are plenty of assholes everywhere and for every reason.

    Pacification is really one of the most violent things one can do to oneself.
    Good point - my own personal view has been that we should acknowledge and accept that violence is a part of human nature. Proper training will allow a person to have some measure of control over that - but to what end that gets used is up to the individual.

    I completely agree with your statement re: pacification - the only true pacifists I've heard of are saints or headed there...and there is probably something genetic about those folks that lets them be that way. Everybody else (especially the kung fu peaceniks) is just suppressing bad stuff that is bound to come out in an inconvenient time in their lives.

  6. #16
    Guizzy's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    In my opinion, it's not so much about non-violence, but about being in control. Mostly in control of myself.

    I train fighting arts; arts that teach me to use my body in physical confrontations. I enjoy those confrontations when they are in a relatively safe situation; ie, sparring. But I do not wish for physical confrontations in my normal life; these are not safe situations and the consequences can be dire.

    But thanks to my training, I am much less scared of those, I have a much more realistic outlook on them and more importantly, I have a much better idea of what my body can and can't do. I am calmer in tense situations, and that calmness makes me less likely to be in a fight, and it makes me able to limit the consequences of it.

  7. #17
    kohadril's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Many philosophies of pacifism don't consider mutually agreed upon fights to be violent, unless they are "honor duels" or for the purposes of resoluving a dispute. Instead, things like football and the martial arts are considered "sport."

  8. #18

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by polishillusion
    If you are enjoying and they are enjoying the punch, it is not really that violent, it it very connecting and empowering to both people.

    Uh... the people I punch might like boxing but I'm pretty sure they aren't enjoying it when I hit them. Then again after AnnaT's thread in YMAS maybe I shouldn't make too many assumptions:confused1

  9. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by From Bell2Bell
    Uh... the people I punch might like boxing but I'm pretty sure they aren't enjoying it when I hit them. Then again after AnnaT's thread in YMAS maybe I shouldn't make too many assumptions:confused1
    By my definition of violence, it is something that disrupts the connection between people; therefore, punching someone in the face may not be violent in some contexts.

  10. #20
    Jim_Jude's Avatar
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    is your goal just sport arts, or MMA, or SD? I think this is important to look at when your goal is SD. Besides the fact that ANYONE that does MA thinks about the day that they will get to "UNLEASH THE DRAGON" on some poor, unsuspecting mugger/rapist/asshole, and yet so many people that do MA (TMA, MMA, RBSD, Combatives, whatever) somehow think that they know what is right and wrong, and when it is prudent or not to use their newfound H2H skills.

    Personally, I think that EVERYONE that learns how to physically deal with conflict should learn how to recognize conflict as it develops, and also how to deal with conflict verbally / learn how to diffuse a possible conflict.
    It's like a gun. Yeah, pull the trigger when it's pointed at something you want to shoot. The basics. But...
    ANY GUN IS A LOADED GUN.
    DON'T POINT IT AT ANYTHING THAT YOU DON'T WANT TO SHOOT.
    THE FINGER NEVER TOUCHES THE TRIGGER UNLESS YOU PLAN ON KILLING WHATEVER THE GUN IS AIMED AT.
    These you learn in a firearm SAFETY class. They are vital to knowing how to RESPONSIBLY use a firearm. How are MA's any different?
    Also, verbal SD is valuable, and useful outside of physical conflict. Check out Verbal Judo. Any LEO that's taken such a course will tell you how good it is. Of course, it all must be drilled, just like physical techniques. You need someone that you trust yelling in your face, telling you all about your mom to get the full impact of verbal assault and how to deal with it calmly.
    WHEN physical violence or deadly force is LEGAL, also an important point.
    There must be means/ability, opportunity, jeopardy, and for the civilian, preclusion, or that there is no other option (i.e. You can't run, you are with a child that can't run & you can't run with, you're surrounded, etc.)
    http://www.useofforce.us/3aojp/

    Here is a good article on lethal force by Masaad Ayoob about when you may consider yourself threatened:
    http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...36/ai_11549909

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