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  1. LI GUY 1 is offline
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    GIJoe6186 like boys, mainly his brother

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    Posted On:
    3/08/2007 3:00pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Vid isn't working.
  2. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    3/08/2007 3:30pm

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     Style: creonte on hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by LI GUY 1
    Vid isn't working.
    There.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=In-C95MWMTA

    Saw the clip... it is a thing of... err... beauty. :new_shock
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
  3. Ke?poFist is offline
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    Enforcer of Northeast Anti-Silliness Department Inc.

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    Posted On:
    3/08/2007 3:40pm

    supporting member
     Style: Kaju, BJJ, Judo, Kempo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Notice the emphasis on the word, "LOGICAL." I swear this guy is trying to convince himself he knows what he's talking about as much as he's trying to convince his students. The Kennedy accent is funny too though, "Haymaka!"
    Knowing is not enough, you must apply...
    ...Willing is not enough you must do
    ~Bruce Lee

  4. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/08/2007 5:11pm

    supporting member
     Style: creonte on hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The other thing that strikes me from the clip is the haymaker itself. The "haymaker" in the video is not even close to the way people throw haymakers naturally. A strong, determined adult male will throw bombs (bombs relatively to arm punches). Those can't be blocked as in the clip... unless the blocker is like 200lbs and the puncher is Peewee Herman.

    See, this is the thing I find strange when I read about Kempo. I only did it for like 2 months, but I never saw stuff like that. No sparring, granted, but there was a lot of conditioning (specially the abs), then a brief form, and ending with boxing drills with focus mits, 1-2's, keep the chin down, stuff like that.

    That was my only experience with Kempo, and I never saw that kind of wackiness. Maybe I was lucky :tongue3:
    Last edited by Teh El Macho; 3/08/2007 5:34pm at .
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
  5. Ke?poFist is offline
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    Enforcer of Northeast Anti-Silliness Department Inc.

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    Posted On:
    3/08/2007 5:16pm

    supporting member
     Style: Kaju, BJJ, Judo, Kempo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by El Macho
    The other thing that strikes me from the clip is the haymaker itself. The "haymaker" in the video is not even close to the way people throw haymakers naturally. A strong, determined adult male will throw bombs (bombs relatively to arm punches). Those can't be blocked as in the clip... unless the blocker is like 200lbs and the puncher is Peewee Herman.

    See, this is the thing I find strange when I read about Kempo. I only did it for like 2 months, but I never saw stuff like that. No sparring, granted, but there was a lot of conditioning (specially the abs), then a brief form, and ending with boxing drills with focus mits, 1-2's, keep the chin down, stuff like that.

    That was my only experience with Kempo, and I never saw that kind of wackiness. Maybe I was lucky :tongue3:
    Who did you train under?
    Knowing is not enough, you must apply...
    ...Willing is not enough you must do
    ~Bruce Lee

  6. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/08/2007 6:08pm

    supporting member
     Style: creonte on hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    His name was Osvaldo from the Dominican Republic. I don't remember his last name unfortunately, but I do remember exactly where the school was: just a small office turned dojo a mile from my house, focus mitts, boxing gloves, head gear and weapons hanging from a wall. He had morning and afternoon classes, and I and four others were going to the morning classes.

    Back then (94) I didn't know to pay attention to credentials (it wouldn't even entered my mind to question or ask questions). Thus, I can't tell his association or lineage (if such a word applies), but I think he was associated with the Tiger & Dragon Karate Kenpo Dojo in Miami (which I think still exists) and he stated he previously trained in NY city.

    That was the very first time I saw a, quote-and-quote, "striking martial arts" that looked like boxing. Honestly it was shocking; I was like "wtf?" at first. Much, much different from Shotokan which I did prior to that (katas, katas and more katas, kicking in the air, kicking, kicking and kicking with lots of KIAI!!!!!) - very different from all the misconceptions I had back then.

    I would really like to meet him again, but who knows where he is now :(
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
  7. nomamao is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/04/2007 6:23pm


     Style: Hung Ga Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I've never seen a block like that in my life. It seems like wasted movement...

    But I'm from the school of "why take two hands to block one?" so, I can't say.


    If he just chose to block with his left hand while attacking with his right hand, that would be fuckin' brilliant. But, the thing is that anything can look good against a guy attacking like that. I could fuckin' use a crescent kick to block the hand and spinning back kick the dude in the gut followed up by a spinning backfist to the dude's head with that shitty attack coming at me. But, what does that really show? That I can show off techniques that I would never try in real life on some lifeless robot I command at will.

    I hate demos like that. They prove NOTHING.

    How could he not defend against that attack is something I'd really want to know.

    :(

    If that's what Kempo looks like, then I'd leave too... but, I'm sure that's the worst of the worst, so I'm hoping that gets weeded out in due time.
    Last edited by nomamao; 4/04/2007 6:27pm at .
  8. Ke?poFist is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/05/2007 12:35am

    supporting member
     Style: Kaju, BJJ, Judo, Kempo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    That wasn't the worst of the worst.....he just has the worst accent ;)
    Knowing is not enough, you must apply...
    ...Willing is not enough you must do
    ~Bruce Lee

  9. wildwills is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/05/2007 7:29am


     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Whorian Gracie
    It's the Mullet Mafia.
    So true, so frickin' true. I saw more mullets and mohawks at my old Kenpo school than I have in whole 34 yrs of existence.
    Last edited by wildwills; 4/05/2007 7:45am at .
  10. wildwills is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/05/2007 7:44am


     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by KempoFist
    4) Over-intellectualization of combat: After reading the first part of this article, you must be saying to yourself, "WOW, these Kempo guys sure do think alot about fighting." And if you did say that, you are 100% right. The problem being they think quite a bit about it, but never seem willing to put their theories to the test and will instead engage you in a game of mental sparring, which brings us back to the foundation of problem #1.

    6) Lack of body movement: 90% of Kempo techniques are designed to help counter the initial strike of an assault (note* assault, NOT fight...there's a difference) and with that idea of finishing the fight that early comes with it the idea that you don't need to move. The majority of techniques employ the concept of hip movement to generate power while you block/parry/slap the attack away while simultaneously counter-striking and dominating your opponent. This works great if the fight never gets out of the 2nd stage of combat, but more than likely it will and then something more substantial is needed. This brings me to point 7...

    7) Rejection of proven training methods: Many Kempoists reject proven training and fighting methods that work well for sports fighters because, they don't train for that..."we train to save our life on the street." The problem with this mentality is that no proper foundation is ever set. I believe Luis Gutierrez said it better than I ever could...

    Without proper reflexes/muscle memory and expereince that can be gained only from rolling/sparring all the technique in the world becomes useless, and all the foul/dirty tactics in the world won't save you from even a slightly experienced fighter.

    ~ Now in conclusion I will say that there is one thing to always keep in mind. When you follow a tradition, make sure that the tradition is one that is proven and good for you. In the case of Kempo, I feel that I am living up to its tradition to the fullest extent. To me, to allow complacency, and stagnation of technique and theory is not only doing a disservice to yourself, but also insulting the history and tradition of innovators and pioneers in the art of Kempo. This is why in my opening words I refused to use the word "tradition." Because to me tradition in Kempo IS change, IS progress, and IS what I am advocating. We must always be looking to adapt and change to keep up with the times. Believe it or not, empty-hand combat is still an evolving science, and attempting to utilize outdated knowledge in such an environment...well it's just bad science. Look at even secure environments such as MMA fighting with specific rulesets. Judging before those matches you'd think boxing to be the most superior fighting art. After UFC 1 and 2, you'd think grappling. Now, how many grappling submissions do you see in PRIDE fighting bouts compared to 10 years ago? If what works there can still evolve, how can one argue that what works in a street fight with no rules at all can't evolve?

    Great article Kempofist and "spots on" with regards to Kenpo in general. I too was a Kenpoist (Tama Ryu Kenpo Jujitsu) and thought it was very liberating at first coming from a Shotokai/Shotokan background.

    Eventually I started to see many of the failings you spoke of and knew it was time to find something with more resistance built-into the training when my 7 year old son starting asking me why we weren't even doing the technques with resistance. We eventually switched over to Judo. We still use the heavy bag at home for kicking and striking. But we both enjoy the rolling on the mats as well and "Adapting".

    Again great article.
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