Thread: Good multiple person training?
2/28/2007 7:28pm, #11
- Join Date
- Apr 2005
- Seattle (Ballard), WA
A random free for all like this doesn't seem like it would really do much more than encourage people to goof off.
Do it like any other competitive sport with contact, and just choose up teams. To make it interesting, make sure one team is outnumbered. Allow people to tap out if they feel that they've been clocked a few too many times, and that'll put even more pressure on the others that are still fighting.
The whole problem with going against multiple opponents in training is that the person who is outnumbered needs to escalate the intensity quite drastically to have any hope of surviving. Either that, or he just needs to be far better technically or physically. This is pretty much how it plays out for self defense as well.
By doing some sort of drill as the one in the video, but with some actual rhyme and reason to it, you could actually get something out of it (besides a beating). Typical stuff like angling off and avoiding being surrounded can help, but chances are you'll still be fighting an uphill battle agaisnt multiple opponents. Nevertheless, some of these tactics are worth practicing, and if you are smart about it (unlike those in the video), you might improve your tactics and reduce the amount of damage that you take.
2/28/2007 7:35pm, #12
Originally Posted by Ryno
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- Sep 2005
2/28/2007 7:42pm, #13
While the video was amusing, in the same way a train wreck is, I don't think it offers much except a bad example.
The conversation of what would make a good multi-person training exercise is a good one.
The people in the video, however, have nothing to contribute to said discussion.
2/28/2007 7:54pm, #14
Better vid, same guys. I think this 'round' precedes the one I posted. To be honest I thought it was this clip I was posting. In general they keep it together a bit more:
For what it's worth I don't think we should dwell on individual form, the fact that some of them were clowning about at times etc.
From the comments I think that the vid is of guy training for an upcoming fight (MMA?) and having a lark at the same time. I'd guess the guy in question was one of the mofe serious guys there.
But in terms of preventing the multiple attacker defense myth from building up in MAists I think this is pretty ok and a million times better than most what I've ever seen including my own training.
The guys experience being blindsided in an Alive manner even if it is why some dude doing a run-past windmill. And it exposes them to guys just swinging madly which in all honesty you see a lot in real fights but hardly ever in an MA club.
Compare if you will woith this approach to essentially the same scenario:
This is another I think shows the limitations of semi-contact training enviroments. I wouldn't be surprised if the 'attackers' didn't even realise how half-arsed their attacks were:
Searching on "multiple attackers" on youtube bought up some interesting clips, some not as bad as I expected from their respective arts. There's a Krav one there which isn't bad, well at least not terrible.
EDIT: But Systema doesn't fail to deliver as expected. This has to be one of the worst multiple attacker drills imaginable:
Last edited by Fantasy Warrior; 2/28/2007 8:01pm at .You are a total Douchbag. Train more, post nevermore.
FickleFingerOfFate -08-21-2007 08:59 AM
just die already.Plasma - 08-20-2007 11:45 PM
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2/28/2007 9:40pm, #15
The reason I called the first clip gay besides the giggling man pile and guy twirling, twirling, twirling like a pretty ballerina is because that wasn't a multiple attacker scenario.
Multiple attackers doesn't mean 10 people playing tag, it means 4 people trying to **** up one person.
One of the 2 times I ever got beat up I was on the receiving end of a multiple attacker situation.
People who attack on mass in groups are cowardly pieces of **** who want to feel tough but are to afraid to ever get into a 1 on 1 fight.
The best way to deal with multiple attackers is to break their will, and to do that you need to be vicious.
The only thing I can think of is to choose one person and hurt them as quickly and brutally as possible and then move to another and scare the **** out of the rest.
How many people get beat to death or seriously injured by gangs.
To me a multiple attacker situation is a potential life an death situation and if I am going to get stomped into a coma I am taking someone with me.
So if the best way is just to target 1 person at a time and take them out brutally then regular hard training will do the trick more than these BS drills
As far as multiple attackers go for aikido I always took those drills as more training your reaction to do something with out thinking because you don;t have time than a realistic multiple attacker defense.
It's Aikido's attempt at almost "alive" sparring.
3/01/2007 4:07pm, #16
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- Apr 2005
- Seattle (Ballard), WA
Joe hit on one of the big points there, which is escalation. A mob can very quickly **** you up quite badly, and tend to see little threat to themselves. They may even see the assault as simple entertainment, even though the results of it could be very bad for the person on the receiving end. Therefore, if you can escalate the situation, and really hurt one of the initial attackers, you may scare the others into stepping back and not participating. Or if the mob is determined, they might still attack.
In either case, you shouldn't hold back against multiple attackers, as it will can very quickly end up in a life or death situation regardless of what you do. Just say **** it, and try to hurt the attackers as severely as possible to decrease the numbers coming at you as quick as you can. If you're lucky it'll be a deterrent to the others.
3/01/2007 4:33pm, #17
I also agree. When I did krav we did multiple person attacks but they were more goal based. For example, you had to start in turtle position. People would get on you and you had to try to free your self and run to the door. There was never a 'try to fight', the goal was always to escape. If you have to throw a punch or two to get out, that's fine but don't try to turn it in to a fight.There is no cheating, there is only jiu-jitsu.
3/01/2007 4:46pm, #18
I've been on both (receiving end twice, once was hit with a brick in the mouth) sides of the multiple attacker scenario on "the street" (yeah, I used to have a huge chip on my shoulder and took gangsta movies too literally). It didn't end well for whoever was the lone person being attacked. It basically boiled down to one or three punches, grab, go to the ground, and hit or kick at any possible target that was presented. The stuff in the video is nowhere near realistic imo. To me, there's no way to realistically train for that type of situation. The violence involved can't possibly be replicated safely in a training environment. I do agree with Joe about hurting one as bad as you can though.
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3/01/2007 6:01pm, #19
I was involved in a multiple attacker situation once. I got hit in the face. I hit the guy back in the face (which knocked him down) and then I ran like hell. **** sticking around for that ****.
3/01/2007 6:10pm, #20
Originally Posted by Bustardo
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- Sep 2006
- Athens, GA
Run the hell away.
You saw how often they got clopped in the back of the head, and anyone in that mess would have to be aware of just how vulnerable they were at any given moment.
Last edited by S0meguy; 3/02/2007 12:16am at .