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  1. M1K3 is offline
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    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    2/28/2007 11:36am


     Style: submission grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I guess I need to apologize. My goal was not to piss every one off and I am kind of shocked by the way people are reacting.

    The points I was trying to make were:

    1. People in the military no matter what their job should be considere martial artists and don't get the respect that they should.
    2. martial = military, in the not too distant past martial arts belonged to the military. Most people did not have anything to do with them.
    3. Hobby is not a bad word. For most people here this is not your vocation. It is something you do because you enjoy it and get something out of it, whatever that may be.
    4. There is much more to martial arts than hand to hand combat
    5. A lot of people here rant about how deadly their art is, it was the 'too deadly to compete' idea that I was speaking to.

    So, I am sorry if anyone took this as an insult, it was a point of view, not an attack.
  2. metarat is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/28/2007 11:38am


     Style: Taijiquan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve
    You're right.

    Unless we've beaten someone to a pulp (at the very least. Better if they're beaten till they're dead) we are just hobbyists.

    Oh, and because I refuse to 'serve my country', I will never be one of those TRUE MARTIAL ARTISTS. How horrible.

    Dude, let's not alienate the majority of people with one thread... Okay?
    Umm, I think I get what M1K3 is saying, and I think you're taking it wrong.

    I don't think a slight was meant on anyone not choosing to be in the military.

    I don't -think- he meant to talk smack about anyone who trains sincerely and seriously in Martial Arts.

    I don't even think he meant to take a **** on law enforcement, tho' inadvertently he did-- those folks are exposed nearly constantly to the potential of violence and harm, almost constantly, every shift of their career unless and until they get a total desk job. The average member of the military doesn't have nearly as many hours in a hot zone. So, equal props to LE Pros, at least, okay?

    I THINK what we're working on here, is that the military OR law enforcement pro lives and works in an environment where they may actually have to fight FOR REAL, even if that fighting is pulling a trigger or dropping a bomb on some poor shits you can't see clearly, not hand-to-hand physical combat. AND they are at risk, real statistical risk, for getting wasted, blown up, offed, killed dead.

    I didn't see any implication that this is glorious; it is in fact a hell of a way to make a living. And I don't read any slight on anyone who doesn't choose to live that way.

    But people who don't do danger for a living (and I'll include Corrections Officers, Bouncers and Bodyguards), they are doing SPORT MA. And sports can be dangerous, but its not the same as living with a real risk of violent death daily. You can MAKE your sport serious, by choosing to fight in competition, but don't confuse the SPORT with the REALITY, especially those of us who don't fight all the time.

    That's what I think he meant, or maybe its just what I'm saying.

    (metarat, SSG USAR(eserves) Retired, 1983-2004)
    I was a REMF for 21 years, and I DON'T choose to go back and fight for Georgey and maybe orphan my kids-- but I repect people who live with real danger, including all job classes mentioned above and probably some more.
  3. M1K3 is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/28/2007 11:44am


     Style: submission grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by metarat
    Umm, I think I get what M1K3 is saying, and I think you're taking it wrong.

    I don't think a slight was meant on anyone not choosing to be in the military.

    I don't -think- he meant to talk smack about anyone who trains sincerely and seriously in Martial Arts.

    I don't even think he meant to take a **** on law enforcement, tho' inadvertently he did-- those folks are exposed nearly constantly to the potential of violence and harm, almost constantly, every shift of their career unless and until they get a total desk job. The average member of the military doesn't have nearly as many hours in a hot zone. So, equal props to LE Pros, at least, okay?

    I THINK what we're working on here, is that the military OR law enforcement pro lives and works in an environment where they may actually have to fight FOR REAL, even if that fighting is pulling a trigger or dropping a bomb on some poor shits you can't see clearly, not hand-to-hand physical combat. AND they are at risk, real statistical risk, for getting wasted, blown up, offed, killed dead.

    I didn't see any implication that this is glorious; it is in fact a hell of a way to make a living. And I don't read any slight on anyone who doesn't choose to live that way.

    But people who don't do danger for a living (and I'll include Corrections Officers, Bouncers and Bodyguards), they are doing SPORT MA. And sports can be dangerous, but its not the same as living with a real risk of violent death daily. You can MAKE your sport serious, by choosing to fight in competition, but don't confuse the SPORT with the REALITY, especially those of us who don't fight all the time.

    That's what I think he meant, or maybe its just what I'm saying.

    (metarat, SSG USAR(eserves) Retired, 1983-2004)
    I was a REMF for 21 years, and I DON'T choose to go back and fight for Georgey and maybe orphan my kids-- but I repect people who live with real danger, including all job classes mentioned above and probably some more.
    Thank you, someone with a better command of english and a lot more sense. This was not a put down especially to law enforcement.
  4. Hanniballistic is offline
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    By the Hoary Hand of Hoggoth.....

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    Posted On:
    2/28/2007 11:47am


     Style: JKD & Mok'bara

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by M1K3
    I guess I need to apologize. My goal was not to piss every one off and I am kind of shocked by the way people are reacting.

    The points I was trying to make were:

    1. People in the military no matter what their job should be considere martial artists and don't get the respect that they should.
    2. martial = military, in the not too distant past martial arts belonged to the military. Most people did not have anything to do with them.
    3. Hobby is not a bad word. For most people here this is not your vocation. It is something you do because you enjoy it and get something out of it, whatever that may be.
    4. There is much more to martial arts than hand to hand combat
    5. A lot of people here rant about how deadly their art is, it was the 'too deadly to compete' idea that I was speaking to.

    So, I am sorry if anyone took this as an insult, it was a point of view, not an attack.
    Actually, I probably should say sorry too...everyone knows what I am like before a coffee in the morning! (touchy and whiny as ****!)

    It wasn't so much your sentiment as your phrasing that was bad - and yes, maybe I took it a bit too personally with the "only those in the military...." line of thought ( for reasons metarat picked up on).

    Martial actually means "war-LIKE" rather than "military" - in other words, a combative skill. That means that it does mean war per see but ANY conflict scenario.

    And let us not forget that the military were often the peace-keepers in the periods when they were not fighting (so the arts they learned were emplyed AWAY from the battlefield) so in many ways the line between LEO and soldier is blurry

    I think most people get what you were saying but were a little ticked off by the "wooly" expression.

    Anyway, no blood, no foul - the military always have my respect (well, until they get drunk off duty and start bar fights, but that is another story!)
  5. Wolf is offline
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    T3h R34l Gangnam Style!

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    Posted On:
    2/28/2007 11:52am

    staff
     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by debul937
    This thread could use some insight from the good doctor Macgillicuddy
    I'll respond for him in his while he's away...


    LOLZ! PENIS!!
  6. SpringHeeledJack is offline
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    Diabolical Physiognomy

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    Posted On:
    2/28/2007 11:53am


     Style: Boxing; Sub. Grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Thank you Wolf. He does it a little better, but you did well nonetheless.


    Now lovely Lucifer, in hell so stark
    King, and lord of sin and pride
    With some mist his wits make dark.
    He send thee grace to be thy guide


    HE LOOKS LIKE A TINY BEAR MIXED WITH A CAT, AND THAT IS THE MEANEST ANIMAL MIXTURE EVER, BEAR FOR FUCKING STRENGTH, AND CAT FOR FUCKING MEAN!!! ************.

  7. Gezere is offline
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    My guns bigger than Scrapper's!

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    Posted On:
    2/28/2007 11:54am

    supporting member
     Style: Kakutogi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    M1k3 does make some valid points but did it in an ineffective way. More live debate and less dead ranting!
    ______
    Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invincible Asia) Dark Emperor of Baji!!!

    RIP SOLDIER

    Didn't anyone ever tell him a fat man could never be a ninja
    -Gene, GODHAND

    You can't practice Judo just to win a Judo Match! You practice so that no matter what happens, you can win using Judo!
    The key to fighting two men at once is to be much tougher than both of them.
    -Daniel Tosh
  8. SpringHeeledJack is offline
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    Diabolical Physiognomy

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    Posted On:
    2/28/2007 12:02pm


     Style: Boxing; Sub. Grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Okay, I'll be serious, but I don't have a whole lot to add, seeing as how Metarat and Hannibal pretty much addressed my gripes with the OP. I suppose the problem was just in the tone of your post. Some points I agree with. Some I don't. Personally, I was in the USMC, for a while at least, and I never considered myself a martial artist just because I was (unless you count bar-fights with sailors and other Marines martial arts). Your definition for a martial artist was valid at one point in time, but it is valid no longer. Soldiers are soldiers and martial artists are something else. Just my take on things.


    Now lovely Lucifer, in hell so stark
    King, and lord of sin and pride
    With some mist his wits make dark.
    He send thee grace to be thy guide


    HE LOOKS LIKE A TINY BEAR MIXED WITH A CAT, AND THAT IS THE MEANEST ANIMAL MIXTURE EVER, BEAR FOR FUCKING STRENGTH, AND CAT FOR FUCKING MEAN!!! ************.

  9. saipher is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/28/2007 12:04pm


     Style: Hapkido

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by metarat
    (metarat, SSG USAR(eserves) Retired, 1983-2004)
    I was a REMF for 21 years, and I DON'T choose to go back and fight for Georgey and maybe orphan my kids-- but I repect people who live with real danger, including all job classes mentioned above and probably some more.
    Haha. REMF. Haven't heard that in a while. But the pension's good, no?
  10. Coyote is offline
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    Your RBSD Cannot Save You Now.

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    Posted On:
    2/28/2007 1:35pm

    supporting member
     Style: Spanish Rapier/Epee/Foil

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    CLOWN THINK HE AM SMART.
    CLOWN NOT SMART.
    CLOWN SAY WE NOT MARSHUL ARTISTS IF NOT IN ARMEE.
    ME SAY CLOWN AM NOT FIGHTER.
    ME SAY CLOWN AM CLOWN.
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