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  1. blue-dragon is offline

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    Aug 2003
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    Posted On:
    2/28/2007 5:34pm


     Style: Boxing and Moo Duk Kwan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Sciencific ideas change and get stacked over one another, any reason for arguement here would be due to too many researchers and bodybuilders printing stuff. You guys are well learnt in tissue development, and I hope these are not quotes out of a bodybuilder magazine.

    The onlything I could possibly bring to this is that intese physical and metal events in life can mentally toughen a person. If it can be replicated in a gym enviroment in a small way then there would have to be a plus to it from a mental approach, as to making a fighter superiorally resolved to smash someone into the mat.

    "the onlything promised in life is death, everything else is achievement"
  2. Nid is offline

    Light Heavyweight

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    Oct 2003
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    Posted On:
    2/28/2007 7:49pm

    supporting member
     Style: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    is plausible that a muscle can generate maximum kinetic output with minimum energy used.
    Absoloutely. I wouldn't say minimum, I'd say minimal relative to what's being done (nothing's free), and not without a reason. And I have no reason to believe it carries over into something which isn't specifically rehearsed. It's just counter-intuitive to really fundamental survival stuff.
  3. Flash Jackson is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/01/2007 2:05am


     Style: Throwing, and Matwork

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I don't know what the hell most of you guys said, but I believe in plateaus, which are wildly overlooked in the article. The article suggests if all a guy did was bench press, he would eventually perfect the bench press. While we all know that the guy would die from muscle strain when he destroyed his shoulder, and he would hit said plateau way before then. It doesn't mention training with various speeds AS A WAY to improve performance, as in cross training within movements, but even if it did we still know that if subject A did bench press, bench press w/bands/kettlebells/chains/dumbells/fucking people/on a floor/on a train/in the sky/on a plane/etc. he would still eventually need to work another lift to produce gains in said movement. Same with any technique, be it juggling or punching.

    The article also suggest that if you just do bodybuilding style training and practiced day and night you will excel, while completely overlooking the fact that just because a movement is a movement doesn't mean it doesn't have carry-over to other movements. Regardless of whatever, a pec deck will still teach your muscles to move apart and a power clean will still teach your muscles to work together, which is good in any movement. **** this article. It's horse ****.
  4. Raining_Blood is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/01/2007 4:27am


     Style: Wrestling, MT

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I have got to agree that this article has a couple of fundamental flaws. I have only recently started doing a proper olympic lifting programme and have noticed huge gains in both maximum strength and explosiveness. I may be mistaken but dont plyometrics and olympic lifts train your muscles and nervous system to generate maximum force in a short time ie explosiveness. Also in sport because movements happen in such a short time frame your muscles dont have time to generate maximum muscle fibers or maximum strength. Slow movements increase these maximums, while im not saying powerlifts are bad, on the contray i love them but its food for thought. Olympic lifts might not train for maximum muscle fiber recruitment but they do train for rapid recruitment of muscle fibers and also teach muscles to work in unison. That is my take on the situation
  5. zendeath2000 is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/01/2007 10:02am


     Style: Pai Lum K.F.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Both of you are correct. I am a middle school health/pe teacher and help run my fathers gym business on the weekends so i dont spout things i read in magazines, mine was good ol' fashion college graduate school; just sorting through the drunken haze for 6 years is hard to remember little medical details. The muscle contraction speed is the same whether its under stress or not; however the more resistance the more fibers are needed to produce that target speed (that much everyone has agreed on so far). Now as for powerlifting and strength conditioning training the body to move in specific patterns, yeah i can see that cause form does help overcome lack of strength; however RAINING BLOOD hit it on his comment on rapid recruitment. The signal triggers in the nervous system and cause this rapid signal to the corusponding muscle groups.
    Say for instance: working the low round-house kick.... well what muscles are targeted to move; quads, calf, biceps femorus, gluts, hip flexors, and core trunk muscles. Good power exersize to utilize to train these groups... conventional squat or zercher squat. essentially your muscles conform to the workload thus increasing power output. When applying the same amount of force with no weight the speed is increased and power multiplies significantly. This force being applied during the kick results in bone crushing damage; Cross-traing your mind to corrolate this in conjunction with the kick instead of the squat means that you have to do both with the same intensity output.
  6. Flash Jackson is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/02/2007 3:39am


     Style: Throwing, and Matwork

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You should always keep the sport in mind. In all training programs, whether it be design or performing in question, the sport should constantly be in mind. Thank you much for acknowledging my correctness. I can now die in peace.
  7. zendeath2000 is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/02/2007 8:42am


     Style: Pai Lum K.F.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    absolutely. When i was hardcore into training i had a system of cables and pulleys attached to either a 50 or 100 pound heavy bag. I would then strap it to my ankle/handle and throw kicks or punches. Thats how i trained for strength out of my movement. I also powerlifted as a hobbie with my father while he was competing so the gains just kept coming.
  8. Marrt is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/02/2007 11:15am


     Style: default std

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by El Macho
    ...

    Same with plyometrics (and HIIT). It's not only sufficient to have good technique and powerful major muscles. A fighter needs to be able to use both over extended periods of time explosively - high anaerobic capacity rules. Otherwise (and just to borrow the author's expression), it would be a temporary demonstration of power, not a permanent adaptation.

    Also, going back to a clean-and-jerk (barbell or single-armed/dumbbell), though it is true that after the lift the weight goes up on its own momentum, the muscles are being trained to both 1) initiate that explosive movement, with force, and 2) control the weight at the end of the rep.

    One (somewhat good) example of an explosive lift is when you are in somebody's guard, you jump on your feet while grabbing his lapels and lift him up explosively to break his guard. ****, just think Rampage slamming Arona. Those are explosive lifts IMO.

    It mentions that fast repetitions are not necessarily a good thing, but then, how would that fit into the obvious benefits of tabata sets? I know that can be explained, but the article fails in doing so (I'm nitpicking here.)
    .
    Hey Mach, but his article doesn't dispute the potential benefits of HIT/HIIT and plyometrics as a way of building your aerobic/anaerobic endurance in executing movements. The guy has published a couple of books specifically on HIT and the benefits thereof and approach to using. His point seems to specifically be that you'll get much better speed and explosiveness gains out of practicing [whatever] technique and that that can be supplemented by weights as that just increases the amount of power you have available to deliver to a well executed technique. e.g. your explosive lift example - a deadlift is going to help you lift Arona purely from a weight/power perspective but its the practice of a ... Daki Age thats going to give you speed and explosiveness in the execution.


    Everyone seems to be reading the article as saying these training methods are ****, which it's not. It's just saying that there's nothing but anecdotal evidence to suggest that if you want to use them specifically for "Improving Speed, Power and Explosiveness" then the benefits don't seem to be there vs. just training your **** at whatever art/style/whatever you choose to pursue. i.e. training in your sport makes you better at your sport.
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