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Posted On:
2/28/2007 8:21am -
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Posted On:
2/28/2007 8:41am--
I don't quite agree with his comments on explosive lifts or plyometrics. Explosive lifts teach how to use the entire body as a single unit in an explosive manner. Moreover, they are anaerobically demanding. Anything that's anaerobically demanding is good.
Same with plyometrics (and HIIT). It's not only sufficient to have good technique and powerful major muscles. A fighter needs to be able to use both over extended periods of time explosively - high anaerobic capacity rules. Otherwise (and just to borrow the author's expression), it would be a temporary demonstration of power, not a permanent adaptation.
Also, going back to a clean-and-jerk (barbell or single-armed/dumbbell), though it is true that after the lift the weight goes up on its own momentum, the muscles are being trained to both 1) initiate that explosive movement, with force, and 2) control the weight at the end of the rep.
One (somewhat good) example of an explosive lift is when you are in somebody's guard, you jump on your feet while grabbing his lapels and lift him up explosively to break his guard. ****, just think Rampage slamming Arona. Those are explosive lifts IMO.
It mentions that fast repetitions are not necessarily a good thing, but then, how would that fit into the obvious benefits of tabata sets? I know that can be explained, but the article fails in doing so (I'm nitpicking here.)
It is an interesting article, and it's right on the money when it criticizes martial artists that use ankle weights and **** like that. But on explosive lifts and plyometrics, I think it's flawed.Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.
My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.
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The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris -
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Posted On:
2/28/2007 9:46am -
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Posted On:
2/28/2007 10:39am--
I always lift as fast as I can. If I am lifting light the bar will move fast. If I am lifting heavy the bar moves slow, but I still move it as fast as possible. Why be deliberatley slow? He says that the weight moves due to "momentum" and little effort is used after the initial explosive move.
Guess who supplied that momentum though? The lifter, people talk about momentum in weight lifting as if the bar does it all on its own!
Lastly, again on the topic of explosive lifting only working a part of the muscle. Part right. If the weight is light and lifted explosively then yes the bar will shoot up fast enough that you will not be applying pressure throughout the whole lift. But if the weight is heavy and you still lift explosively (as fast and hard as you can) the bar will be fighting you all the way.
So I say kep lifting explosively and lift heavier. Most people probably lift too light (of course that is a relativ statement, heavy for me could be light for others) in the first place. -
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Posted On:
2/28/2007 10:59am--
There's this...thing called a strength curve, and our joints go in an arc, you see, and yeah, of course the lifter creates momentum, but eh...that's not the point. Strength training..is...eh...I mean we're talking about an after-the-fact response to a degree of recruitment of muscle fibers which isn't going to change (the order therefo) and so why subject the body to potentially injurous OUTSIDE forces. Outside. When you lift a given weight (x) with virtually no acceleration you know you are both lifting and being subjected to X. A=unknown forces. "A" happens a lot in contact sports, that's why...why...wh...w........:::sets hair on fire and runs screaming in oppposite direction::
Edit: Ok, seriously there's room for lifting as-fast-and-as-hard-as-one-can, but it's on the rep you probably won't finish. The fresh one(s) ought to be controlled cuz that's when you're strongest!. And this is about rote strength training... Not sport/strength hybrid stupidity....i.e. 'POWER LIFTING'. Well, one's hobby is one's business, it just gets messy to mix the two and expect to have a meaningful discussion.Last edited by Nid; 2/28/2007 11:12am at .
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Posted On:
2/28/2007 12:56pm
Style: Pai Lum K.F.--
well i may be talking out my butt with this, but i was always under the impression that a muscle always has the ability to generate maximum kinetic force from potential energy with little to no strain. if you go from a rest postion and maximize the movement doesnt that generate "explosive" movements whether your utilizing weights or not?
Weights just cause more muscle fiber recruitment to perform that maximum potential... if the body is trained to move utilizing more fiber recruitment from training with the weights, would it not stand to reason that it would do so without the weights holding it down?
my example being: ice skating/speed skating (after your done and take off the skates your muscles tend to over compensate while walking; this is not due to inner ear equilibrium)Last edited by zendeath2000; 2/28/2007 1:00pm at .
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Posted On:
2/28/2007 1:23pm--
That is food for a very good discussion, Zendeath. Thank you.
That's interestingly put. I can't say I understand it completely. Maybe could you rephrase that?Weights just cause more muscle fiber recruitment to perform that maximum potential...
Ah, but it doesn't neccesarily. Not the way you're thinking of... if I follow you.if the body is trained to move utilizing more fiber recruitment from training with the weights, would it not stand to reason that it would do so without the weights holding it down?
Fibers are recruited AS NEEDED. From an energey conservation stand-point (which is what basic evolutionary surival revolves around...and mating STP!), it only makes sense that your body will NOT generalize the need to engage it's energy-hog musculature any more than absoloutely neccesary, much less grow more of it.
Absoloutely neccesary means inferred from practice. "This guy seems to be doing this movement over and over again and keeps adding weight. Rather than waste ENGERY building more tissue, let's just streamline the neurologic **** and see if that suffices." AKA noob gains. Strength from practice, let's call it.
The more complicated the movement is (the more joint functions come into play) the more the coordination of the neurologic system will have bearing. More things to improve incrementally in terms of things other than physiology... timing, mental practice, conscious changes etc.
The simpler the movement, the quicker the body will reach it's dead end in terms of neurologic improvement and have to start thinking about other alternatives...liking growing more meat provided the needs of rest, nutrition, etc are met.
These simpler movements (one or two joint functions devoid of intentionally incurring advantages LIKE MOMENTUM), have less to do with tweaking an athletic endeavor (involving non-physiological matters) and more to do with cutting to the chase of adding more cubic inches in the engine. All else being equal, a bigger given muscle fiber will produce more force....for everyting external against which it contracts. So it should take a less intrusive recruitment of fiber types (with bigger fibers) to achieve the same goal have previously required more (fiber types). It's energy frugality.
Muscle fibers orchestrated together to produce more force per unit of time (whatever that may be) is a matter of neurology. The thing is, it does NOT generalize well at all. Again, energy frugality. Who needs a rapid recruitment of all possible fibers and types, respectively, to undertake a task which the body has no reason to believe you may never do again?
I'm just gonna have to keep respectfully disagreeing with someone who makes nebulous claims of engineering a body to generally "work together better" by doing X,Y,Z tasks....usually Olympic style sport lifts or romanticized "strong man" events. Fun, fine. As efficient as it could be when we're talking about empirical reality? In terms of what task or process in the gym ACTUALLY benefits you on the mat? I say no.
Don't get it. It disagrees with the most basic assumptions about how animals even exist.Last edited by Nid; 2/28/2007 1:35pm at .
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Posted On:
2/28/2007 2:16pm--
Very interesting stuff!
I'd agree that powerlifters get their fair share of nut-huggery (omg teh strongest squat evar!) but if what of the speed lifting stuff like westside's dynamic lifts? over rated for gains or for carry-over to the mat/ring?
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Posted On:
2/28/2007 2:18pm
Style: Pai Lum K.F.--
right... energy conservation of the muscle; however atp/calcium output needed to perform muscle contractions in just one muscle is regulated by the autonomic nervous system. As you know when you move one muscle consentrically the opposing muscles eccentrically contract to slow or "brake' the speed of the working muscle. When a weight is added the eccentrically contracting muscles have to recruit more to slow the kinetic output of the contracting muscle to reduce injury... (please correct me if im wrong, its been about 5 years since bio-mechanics/exersize physiology class).
During virtually any routine movement, eccentric contractions assist in keeping motions smooth, but can also slow rapid movements such as a punch or throw. Part of training for rapid movements such as pitching during baseball involves reducing eccentric braking allowing a greater power to be developed throughout the movement by using a heavier ball during practice and then utilizing a regulation ball during actual games.
if you believe that man is an intelligent animal, then the theory of genetic environment adaptation/evolution can be aplied. If a creature remains in a specific environment where specific stresses are a constant or needed to be over come; the body adapts. in the case of frogs (not that im compairing frogs genetics with human) and thier propotionate strength/reaction-recovery time; it is plausible that a muscle can generate maximum kinetic output with minimum energy used.



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Posted On:
2/28/2007 7:34am
Style: MT/BJJ
"Improving Speed, Power and Explosiveness"