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  1. Hanniballistic is offline
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    By the Hoary Hand of Hoggoth.....

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    Posted On:
    2/20/2007 10:35am


     Style: JKD & Mok'bara

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Never got the chance to meet up with Russell, but the adverts on the PP stuff were...suspicious to say the least.

    For one thing, if I am advertising a system based on striking effectiveness would i REALLY want Heroll Graham advocating it? Now the man was a great boxer, but he was not in any way shape or form a puncher. What he is though is a reconisable name that can be thrown out amongst other "fureyesque" marketing.

    PP's remain something that I will never be convinced of until you drop me with it. To advocate them as a legitimate SD technique is just irresponsible
  2. Elky is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/20/2007 10:46am


     Style: Shotokan Karate

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by sochin101
    That's a whole lot more than the OP offered, and it's always nice to have first hand (even if it is limited) knowledge.
    How long ago did you meet Mr Bailey? Was he involved with Mr Stutely at that point?
    I met Mr Bailey about a year ago at a seminar - I didn't do his lesson as there was a karate one at the same time, but I got to watch some of it and it looked like decent JJJ - pretty much the same as I'd learnt at beginners' JJJ lessons in the past (as it was a beginners lesson he taught). He didn't mention Russell Stutely or RBSD or make any wild claims. As I said, seemed like a nice enough guy and taught a decent JJJ lesson. Can't really say more than that - he didn't seem like your standard crazy martial arts self-publicist - he's a very laid-back guy and I saw nothing dodgy in the bit of the seminar I saw. I think he was just teaching JJJ wrist-locks.
  3. sochin101 is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/20/2007 11:15am

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     Style: No gym currently.

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Elky
    I met Mr Bailey about a year ago at a seminar - I didn't do his lesson as there was a karate one at the same time, but I got to watch some of it and it looked like decent JJJ - pretty much the same as I'd learnt at beginners' JJJ lessons in the past (as it was a beginners lesson he taught). He didn't mention Russell Stutely or RBSD or make any wild claims. As I said, seemed like a nice enough guy and taught a decent JJJ lesson. Can't really say more than that - he didn't seem like your standard crazy martial arts self-publicist - he's a very laid-back guy and I saw nothing dodgy in the bit of the seminar I saw. I think he was just teaching JJJ wrist-locks.
    Thanks for the information, Elky.
    Puzzled that you didn't see anything wrong with wrist locks though :happy:, LOL.

    I wonder if this is a case of marketing gone awry, or something more insidious?
    Where there is only a choice between cowardice and violence, I would advise violence.

    Gandhi

  4. sochin101 is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/20/2007 11:20am

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Hannibal MAP
    PP's remain something that I will never be convinced of until you drop me with it. To advocate them as a legitimate SD technique is just irresponsible
    As someone who has had pressure points practised on me, I can honestly say that, unless the guy was doing it wrong*, they did little other than piss me off some.



    *this is entirely possible.
    Where there is only a choice between cowardice and violence, I would advise violence.

    Gandhi

  5. NorthWest is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/20/2007 12:41pm


     Style: Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The name Anthony Bailey is ringing a bell, for some reason....he doesn't go under the piss poor nickname Anthony "Bad Boy" Bailey, does he?
  6. Hanniballistic is offline
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    By the Hoary Hand of Hoggoth.....

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    Posted On:
    2/20/2007 1:02pm


     Style: JKD & Mok'bara

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by sochin101
    As someone who has had pressure points practised on me, I can honestly say that, unless the guy was doing it wrong*, they did little other than piss me off some.



    *this is entirely possible.
    I doubt it soch,

    In Police UDT training there are several PP's taught as compliance techniques (typically for use against non-violent protesters, which should give you a clue as to the effectiveness in actual combat)

    Out the the 5 or so we are shown, not a single one actually works on me at a level beyond slight irritation and discomfort. No bear in mind that these are practiced with no stress, and you are basically told to sit there and react so your partner can learn the technique.

    PP's (at least as they are presented in the magic panacea sense) are unreliable and unsafe - end of
  7. OnceLost is offline
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    Here's looking at you, squid.

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    Posted On:
    2/20/2007 4:01pm

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     Style: Ke?po, MMA ultra-newb

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm seconding Hannibal's post. I actually had a cut on my arm from a DT (defensive tactics) instructor trying to work a bicep/tricep PP to the point where his fingernail cut the skin. It still wasn't enough to get me to move from my oh-so-threatening stance of "Sit there cross-legged and pretend to be a passive demonstrator." The one at the base of the jaw just below the ear, on the other hand, moved me quite efficiently. That said, PP is very low on the force matrix - you don't use it on someone who is fighting back or even actively resisting.
    "Reason is a choice. Wishes and whims are not facts, nor are they a means to discovering them. Reason is our only way to grasping reality -- it's our basic tool of survival. We are free to evade the effort of thinking, to reject reason, but we are not free to avoid the penalty of the abyss we refuse to see."
    - Terry Goodkind, "Faith of the Fallen"
  8. sochin101 is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/20/2007 4:20pm

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     Style: No gym currently.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I view pressure points as an annoyance... my experience of them differs from you fine LEO types, but I agree; useless until proved otherwise.
    Where there is only a choice between cowardice and violence, I would advise violence.

    Gandhi

  9. Kintanon is offline
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    Yes, I am smarter than you are.

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    Posted On:
    2/20/2007 5:03pm

    supporting memberstaff
     Style: TKD, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    the one behind the ear at the top of the jaw can be REALLY REALLY handy when grappling. I used it in wrestling in high school to get people to move their head on a pretty regular basis. Other than that, I think mild discomfort is the best way to describe the rest of them.
  10. sochin101 is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/21/2007 4:11pm

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     Style: No gym currently.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    In the absence of the original poster, I've taken the liberty of emailing Russell Stutely to make him aware of this thread.
    In a nutshell, I've invited him to post a rebuttal of the assertions that PP techniques are next to worthless.
    If he posts, I'm sure we can expect some interesting debate regarding pressure points and their place in self-defence.

    Oh, and I was polite in the email.:5bowtie:
    Where there is only a choice between cowardice and violence, I would advise violence.

    Gandhi

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